Global Warming SOLAR-made not MAN-made

[Angus]

Originally posted by Jackal1
Time wise, when discussing the earth, 100 years is like a chigger on an elephants back.

You hit the nail on the head there, but unfortunately your own head.
What has happened in 100 years, and is presumed to accelerate in the next 100 or less, has never happened that fast as far as known by natural causes. The only exception meant the intervention of huge volcanic actvity and/or Meteor, - meteors also triggered volcanic activity if the were big enough.
The results were always the same, - destroyng from 50% or much more of species of the planet.
So, that spike in 100 years means that the elephant has to start sweating.

[Angus]

"Now read it again and assimilate."

LOL:

Resistance is futile.

[lazs2]

assimilater what?  

"cut waste"  

Oh... thats a good one.. I don't waste..  not in my mind.  I may like to drive hot rods but I sure as hell use a lot less energy in a year than your hero algore or.... probly you yourself.   What exactly does "cut waste" mean?   Does it mean no one can have a house over 4000 square feet for a family of 3 and the servants or... does in mean everyone should live in a 700' apartment?   does it mean we should all try to cut waste or should laws be passed?   If all you want to do is suggest then... fine.

"use alternative fuels and renewable resources"  

That is also meaningless too unless they exist... I will use any fuel that works as well as what I am using and costs the same or less.. I don't care if my power comes from coal or wind or solar or nuke.. so long as the price is right and it works..  solar will soon get to the point where it makes sense for a homeowner on his roof.   I will do so at that time... if it saves me money...  In any case... let the free market take care of it.. supply and demand.

"use them more efficiently.  if you are a pilot...  etc etc etc"

Well no crap.... Of course they are more efficient..  the free market is making them so.  everything you and I buy is more efficient... not because of the alarmists but because the free market demands it.   Tech is catching up...

stop the alarmist crap and let the free market handle our energy problems.   solar, nuke wind... something else.. it is all getting better and as oil gets more expensive... it all becomes viable to develop...  I am all for that... I love progress..

I just don't want you and your lefty ilk to get involved in it.

lazs

[lazs2]

angus...  I am not sure what numbers you are using but here it takes more energy and costs us more in the long run to use corn for ethanol..  course we use tractors and trucks and such and not plows pulled by mules here.

lazs

[lazs2]

retro... this just in... For the last 100 years the earth has been heating up in a manner that is unprecedented since the last time it did it.

This just happens to coincide with the suns activity first going to an unprecedented high for 100 years...

This just in... co2 is trailing said activity just like it always has since the beggining.    

This just in... solar activity dropped for the last few years and temp is now starting to drop... at which point.. the trailing indicatror.. the unimportant one... co2 will then drop at a slow rate as the oceans cool and absorb more of it.

"carbon neutral"  LOL.. what a scam...  algore in a craphole of a leaky mansion using more energy than 10 normal families offsetting his "carbon" by having some peasants somewhere planting a few trees... so that they have to slash and burn that many more down the road to make room for FOOD and goods to sell.

"carbon neutral" is just lefty nutjob meddling with things that they don't understand or have even given much thought to... just to make em feel better and will most likely cause disease and death and poverty on some grand scale.

lazs

[lazs2]

retro.. I have even started a thread asking what you lefties would have us do to "stop man made global warming"   er... I guess now they call it "climate change" to cover the bases but... you get the idea.

I asked and got nothing but suggestions and generalities and evassive answers like yours... not specific like

"we should burn algore in his own wasteful furnace"

nope.. the only answer with any meaning was someone said we should mandate the mercury polluting flourecent bulbs for homes..

Ok... I did that... I am clean.

You say we should waste less.   I don't waste... I need to use a lot of fuel to make the hp I like but I don't waste it.. I don't run over rich or spill it or pour it out.   I run an electric mower and don't spend a lot heating and cooling... not healthy to change the temp too much from inside to outside... probly use less than you do.   My BMW bike gets over 50 mpg and my el camino gets 6-14 mpg.   I use both along with a lincoln that gets 23 mpg.   none of your business...  I still use less than most and I can afford it.

Ok.. I am clean.

No... I want specifics... what laws would you pass?   How much more a year are you willing to charge every single one of us to avert this disaster?   this disaster that seems to be on the verge of averting itself if the latest temps (which they don't like to publish much) are any indication...  How much?

10%?   20%? of what we earn?  maybe more?   maybe a flat fee per person per year?  $100 a year?  $10,000 a year?  how much is enough and why?

I say.. STFU and just let the free market do its thing and let people make their  own choices on how to live... if they want to live like a slob king like algore... so be it.. if they can afford it... let em.  if they want to live like a bee person in a hive.. let em live in a hive city and ride bikes.

lazs

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Angus
What has happened in 100 years, and is presumed to accelerate in the next 100 or less, has never happened that fast as far as known by natural causes.  

LOL Presumed??? Presumed by who.........whom....whodat? The ones getting paid to say they "presume"? Pretty big assumption.

The only exception meant the intervention of huge volcanic actvity and/or Meteor, - meteors also triggered volcanic activity if the were big enough.

So............we can forget all about naturaly occuring changes in atmosphere and climate? Another rather large assumption.
That`s just it. Nobody knows or even has any idea what mother nature will do on her on. Never has, never will.
In the meantime we can figure out more ridiculous ways to rob ourselves due to unfounded speculation. I`ll opt out.

[Angus]

Retro: you were basically right. As well though, the increase in ice melting, or rather shrinking into an all time low is unique for a period longer than mankind. (definitions as you choose).
And Jackal:
"LOL Presumed??? Presumed by who.........whom....whodat? The ones getting paid to say they "presume"? Pretty big assumption."
Compare a crowd that is being paid to presume what they find out, to a crowd that is being paid (more) to say what they are asked to. Then try to figure out what I just said. Camp-to-camp.
As for this Jacka1:
"So............we can forget all about naturaly occuring changes in atmosphere and climate? Another rather large assumption.
That`s just it. Nobody knows or even has any idea what mother nature will do on her on. Never has, never will.
In the meantime we can figure out more ridiculous ways to rob ourselves due to unfounded speculation. I`ll opt out."

Firstly, the whole discussion is about the things mother nature is NOT doing.
As for robbing ourselves, - well, I think actually that it is us that are robbing...mother Nature.

Final poke/trivia: How much estimated ratio do you think there is between the oil we are burning and oil created by natural causes.

Have a nice day.

[lazs2]

retro...you do realize that "suns brightness" is not all there is to solar activity right?   Just more dishonesty by the left... maybe you should read the report again... while you are at it... note that not only is solar activity going down but... oddly... temp seems to be leveling off and going lower.

Solar activity leads temp change and Co2 lags it.   To study co2 is to study what the sun has already done.  It is a study of what has happened not what will happen.

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/climon/data/themi/g17.htm

you will see that not only is the "suns brightness" (LOL) going down but so is solar activity and so is global temp....  You are the one who ought to get his...

"The end is near!!!" signboard painted up and get to wearing it cause... the you don't have a lot of time... the earth will start to cool..

you clowns will have to switch to "global climate change" and "prove" that the temp going down if the end and that it is caused by man sucking up the co2 or polluting the oceans or whatever...

The entire solar system heats and cools and man has nothing to do with it... the big yellow ball in the sky does it.  maybe a little solar wind and some core shifts on the planet... not too many cars on mars or jupiter...  not too many people eating cows...

lazs

[lazs2]

I am as "clean" as I want to be.   which is probly more so than you or the guys you admire.

So you favor laws that will increase the price of fuel for people.   How much are you willing to gouge?

Is a 5% cut in everyones standard of living enough to avert the crisis?   How bout 10%?   would you be happy if everyone had 10% less money to spend on themselves and their families?   is that enough to make the suns activity go down or do we have to make even greater offerings to your gods?

Do you think people will be happy to have their income slashed?

lazs

[lazs2]

your "ilk" would be the leftie socialists who are all so "worried" about man made global warming and want to pass laws.

Oh... what is the (counter=3) thing?

lazs

[Angus]

Originally posted by lazs2
angus...  I am not sure what numbers you are using but here it takes more energy and costs us more in the long run to use corn for ethanol..  course we use tractors and trucks and such and not plows pulled by mules here.

lazs

I claim you are wong and challenge you to show numbers.
I showed you ones I have without having to use anything close to Wikipedia even. And they were indeed low.

BTW, the Brazilians do this.. And even the swedes are doing this with a simple process, - squeesing the oil out of food rape seed for direct fuel for themselves, - it's all for food and seed, - they still have plenty for both seed, biomass and rest as cattlefeed.

Anyway, what to expect from a crowd that has not yet understood something as simple as photosyntesis.

[john9001]

my computer model can beat your computer model.

[AKH]

Originally posted by lazs2
retro.. I have even started a thread asking what you lefties would have us do to "stop man made global warming"   er... I guess now they call it "climate change" to cover the bases but... you get the idea.

You've been saying this for some time now.  Every time you repeat this fallacy, I chuckle, since like most of your 'facts,' it has little in common with the truth of the matter.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was established in 1988.  So, they have always called it climate change.   However, this has nothing to do with your definition of climate change: "ITS THE SUN STUPID."

Note that the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), in its Article 1, defines “climate change” as: “a change of climate which is attributed directly or indirectly to human activity that alters the composition of the global atmosphere and which is in addition to natural climate variability observed over comparable time periods.” The UNFCCC thus makes a distinction between“climate change” attributable to human activities altering the atmospheric composition,and “climate variability” attributable to natural causes.

 

Moving on twelve years...

Perhaps you are wondering whether this analysis of Unspeak sounds a little like a conspiracy theory. Are there really little grey men sitting in secret offices, deciding on the precise language they will use to bamboozle the public? As it happens, there are. Take the case of the US pollster Frank Luntz, who has produced a series of memos advising the Republican Party on the correct language to use for various issues. One such document treats environmental matters: "the terminology in the upcoming environmental debate needs refinement . . . It's time for us to start talking about 'climate change' instead of global warming . . . 'Climate change' is less frightening than 'global warming'. As one focus-group participant noted, climate change 'sounds like you're going from Pittsburgh to Fort Lauderdale'. While global warming has catastrophic connotations attached to it, climate change suggests a more controllable and less emotional challenge." Quite so. Moreover, "climate change" remains usefully vague on both the causes and direction of any possible change. For these reasons, a coalition of oil-producing companies, led by the US and Saudi Arabia, lobbied successfully in the early 1990s to change the official language at the United Nations from "global warming" to "climate change". This battle of Unspeak seemed to have been won, though the softening effect of "climate change", intended to head off alarm at government inaction against impending catastrophe, may not be working in the face of increasing public anxiety.

link

So, you are either being economical with the truth, or you are arguing vehemently on a topic that you have little understanding of.  

In a true 'straight talking' fashion, which description do you prefer: liar or fool?

[Angus]

A climate change that leads to massive amounts of ice that has remained where it is and even more to MELT at record speed and head to none existence is what then? Just a climate change so that you can have Exxon happier and the ignorant crowd with them?