Global Warming SOLAR-made not MAN-made

[lazs2]

yes they have angus..

That team has predicted the worst hurricane season that the world has ever known for 2006

That team has predicted the rise of the oceans at 30' in two decades.

that team has predicted that co2 leads global warming not lags it.

That team has said that the warming of the rest of the universe is just an odd coincidence.

That team has predicted 5 degrees of temperature rise by 2050.. then 4 degrees and then 3 degrees and now 1 degree in 100 years.

That team has been wrong every single time they make a solid prediction based on their computer models.

lazs

[lazs2]

that really doesn't make any sense.  even if we went to e85 they would still sell every drop of oil they produced.

lazs

[lazs2]

so you are saying that we have fertile farm land that is turning into desert?  We must be losing food production globally then right?  But wait... food production is up.

Partly due to longer growing seasons and more (gasp) co2.

There is no doubt that climate changes occur.. that they happened before we were ever here.. that they happened when we were here and insignificant as co2 producers... that there has been more co2 before.

What there is doubt of tho is that our tiny little contribution (man made co2) to a tiny little portion of natural climate change (greenhouse gas) is what is driving it or... that we could slow it in any way if we produced 0% of the co2.

Again.. I ask... what would the climate be in 10 years if we all slit our throats this  afternoon?

well.. the "scientists" will tell you that they are "uncertain".   That they really don't know.

but lets say that we reduce it by 30%... the most opptomistic attainable figure I have ever been able to get anyone to admit to... even at that.. it would ruin economies and lower the standard of living of everyone on the planet causing millions to die most likely...

but say we did it to "save the planet"   what would 30% of almost nothing be?   What would the effect be?

well... it is "uncertain" likely nothing we could measure...  even the wild eyed alarmists won't go there... they won't be trapped into any hard numbers on anything... they know anything they give as hard numbers.. they will have to explain when it just doesn't happen..

They have not been right yet.

Name one "prediction" in their 20 plus years of doom and gloom that has come to pass..   no fair on the "predictions" they made after the fact.

lazs

[Charge]

"These are jealous socialists who want America to be a lot more like Europe"

Well that line ought to catch attention of certain individuals. I'd say old Vin has a loose screw...



-C+

[lazs2]

charge... there is no doubt at all that the most vehement of the "man made global warming" zealots are on the left.

Angus...  Here is a 60 second version of why I have so much trouble with the whole "end of the world by frying in our own co2" scenario.

http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/07/the-60-second-c.html

You do have to admit that the hysteria of the left on this is offputting.   They have been caught in too many blunders and outright lies on climate and changes in the last 30 or so years.   changing from man made global ice age to man made global hell on earth... with strange predictions on hurricanes and such thrown in... faulty weather stations... feints like "suns brightness" and avoiding suns activity... etc etc etc.

they have been wrong every single time...  

The rest of the site is 80 pages if you want to delve into the science but it pretty much says that you can't make the temperature go up much more than a couple of degrees no matter how much co2 you put into the air.. not in centuries worth of time.

lazs

[Charge]

But the sentence does not really make any sense. "America to be lot more like Europe"? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Its clearly there to catch certain attention.

-C+

[Angus]

Geee....there is so much you do not know, that I do not know where to start.
Okay, line by line.

"so you are saying that we have fertile farm land that is turning into desert? We must be losing food production globally then right? But wait... food production is up."

Established fact. Deserts of the world have untill now been advancing. Notably in N-Africa. FYI Africa is a lot bigger than the USA, and Sahara is not the only desert.
The land lost is the "edgeland". Much of it can easily be fertile farmland, as well as it is, after all, vegetated land.

Food production up? Globally?, don't know, but I guess it is up, notably in Asia. After all, the global population is growing. And BTW, you have 3 Indians or more for every citizen of the USA. They increase their population without building up to mass starvation. Is the USA food production up recently? Or the EU? doubt it.

And here:
"What there is doubt of tho is that our tiny little contribution (man made co2) to a tiny little portion of natural climate change (greenhouse gas) is what is driving it or... that we could slow it in any way if we produced 0% of the co2.

Again.. I ask... what would the climate be in 10 years if we all slit our throats this afternoon?"

It's not tiny, and is reaching and heading for nice numbers after the existance of intelligent minds. As for slitting throats, that's your sick definition as an absolute alternative to at least trying to do something.
Slit your throat if you like, and in 10 years the only question about smell is where you did it, temperature, soil and surroundings, and ....distance.
Oh, that is the proximity climate to a slit-throat Lazs BTW.
The whole climate would probably have less CO2.

Then on to doom and gloom and predictions and countermeasures, which you seem to hate so much.
You should look up the ozone layer, the chemistry, the countermeasures (which were of course severly opposed by people like you), and the effect, then the status today. Guess what. Scientists were right, and measures worked. But it will take a long time before it is allright, so a very nice high-five that the future generations (if they will be around) will give to the arsehats who fought against everything to be done, stone-by-stone, mile-by-mile. Nope. They are actually going to thank people from Retro's camp, not those who wanted a cheaper dumpside and renovation of Freon-12 and related equipment for short time profit.

Here:

"They have not been right yet.

Name one "prediction" in their 20 plus years of doom and gloom that has come to pass.. no fair on the "predictions" they made after the fact."

The predictions I heard from 25 years ago, that the globe was about to warm up, CO2 would be rising, and the polar caps would start melting?
The calculation debates about the soot-related global dimming effect, and both it's cooling effect and when it would wear out?

Ooooops. I named too many.

[Mister Fork]

Originally posted by lazs2
The rest of the site is 80 pages if you want to delve into the science but it pretty much says that you can't make the temperature go up much more than a couple of degrees no matter how much co2 you put into the air.. not in centuries worth of time.

lazs

I agree Laz that the argument of global warming and CO2 is pretty much lame.  It's actually just a by-product of the larger issue - our mass overconsumption of materials.   We have become a consumerist society where we measure material wealth to class.  Make more money, make more products to sell, when we could be looking at how we make things so that we can re-integrate the raw materials back into society.

Remember that monitor and all the packaging? WTF is all that needed for? My iPod died after a year of use. Why couldn't it last 5 or 10 years? Why couldn't I take the battery out and fix it? Why does my cell phone only last 2 years before it starts to fail? How come I can't take my car into a dealer, remove my seats and upholstery and engine, and get an upgrade? Body is in fine shape. But no. Companies want me to by NEW products.  We have become a disposable consumerist society.

We are producing garbage at an unsustainable rate. We are consuming raw materials with no consideration for its waste during manufacturing or its end-life recycling.  Only a fraction of the products we make can be re-used.  We think water is an endless supply. That is the issue.

Now tree-huggers want alternative fuel sources from things like corn.  Ummm... DANGER WILL ROBINSON. DON'T TIE FOOD SOURCES INTO FUEL SOURCES.   It will drive up the prices for wheat and other grains to make frackin fuel for my vehicle.  That is the true danger - we're now letting oil and gas companies look at purchasing the worlds food supply to make gas for cars, suv's and trucks.  Moving people should not be at the expense of the world's food plate.

Don't get me wrong. I love automobiles... the hummer is excessive, but frackin cool.  I also like pickup trucks and I think Jeep rules!  But only if you're using them for what their build for.  Driving a big 4x4 that gets 15mpg to work everyday to your office job is not the smartest or economical reason.  Mind you if you only have to fill the truck up once a month because you don't drive it to work and use it for hauling your camper, house reno's, moving stuff, frack yeah, get a F-350 5th wheel!  But we need to start thinking about what impact we are having on the planet.  C02 is just a weak bullshiet excuse for greenies to make their cause. Kind of like Greenpeace using Seals to fundraise against the Seal hunt (don't get me started).


anyways, stepping off my soap box.

[Angus]

This was enough to shake the article Lazs:
"Since 1940, Earth's surface temperatures have increased by about a half degree Celsius"

Latest updates of numbers...maybe it's just this year

"Samkvæmt tölunum var hitastig jarðar 1,89 gráðu yfir meðallagi í janúar og 1,37 gráðu í febrúar. Þá mældist hiti í Evrópu fjórum gráðum yfir meðaltali í apríl."

Global temps 1.89 over the jan temps average, and 1.37 in feb. European continent 4 degs in April.


(http://www.mbl.is)

If you are looking for something cooling to level this out, you should not look to the arctic areas. And after all, the mass of ice still tied up is more than the mass of the entire atmosphere....

[Angus]

Originally posted by Yknurd
Yes, yes, it's established that it's getting warmer.

Yes, yes, it's established that humans add to the warmth.

But has it been clearly established that ...

You know what...I don't want to go down this path because I believe I know your response anyway.

With that...Good Day!

Say it again please. Still being debated

Anyway Lazs, there is only one team. That is the team hired for propoganda by the Carbon emitting and money making industries have hired to counter what a spectrum of scientists from all sources and all corners of the world have been claiming for a couple of decades. Didn't all happen yesterdaym abd not all in the USA, who basically are no more than 5% of the people in the world. By headcount.

[Mister Fork]

No offence Angus, since Meteorologists and scientists can't predict weather next week to within 80% accuracy, how in the frack can they predict climate change for the next century?  Climate science is also so frackin complex, it is absolutely ridiculous to think they can tell me the worlds temperature is going up 1-2 Celsius the next few decades.  It's also one of the newest science fields, even newer than nuclear science.  

What we'll know about weather science will be completely different 10-20 years from now.  We've also only been accurately tracking weather since the 70's with ACCURATE instruments based on an international standard.  We also didn't even know about the jet stream until Carl-Gustaf Arvid Rossby discovered it for us back in 1939.   It's a very new field with a lot of questions and complex variables that even scientists are only now starting to understand.

The problem in using CO2 as a global environmental issue is a frack weak excuse.  The fact I can point out some pretty glaring holes from a simple explanation should be highlighting that if the greenies want us to look at excessive consumerism or recycling, or waste/air management, then do so. But use CO2? Might as well be trying to sell me on a fact about a Nigerian with money locked up in an account.

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by Angus
Say it again please. Still being debated

That is the team hired for propoganda by the Carbon emitting and money making industries have hired to counter what a spectrum of scientists from all sources and all corners of the world have been claiming for a couple of decades. Didn't all happen yesterdaym abd not all in the USA, who basically are no more than 5% of the people in the world. By headcount.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Angus
Say it again please. Still being debated

Anyway Lazs, there is only one team. That is the team hired for propoganda by the Carbon emitting and money making industries have hired to counter what a spectrum of scientists from all sources and all corners of the world have been claiming for a couple of decades. Didn't all happen yesterdaym abd not all in the USA, who basically are no more than 5% of the people in the world. By headcount.

Yes those noble environmental scientists work for handouts and would never think of taking money from people who have a vested interest in this. Like Gore. No they are noble kind people like hobbits, but without the hairy toes.

[Angus]

Okay:
"No offence Angus, since Meteorologists and scientists can't predict weather next week to within 80% accuracy, how in the frack can they predict climate change for the next century?"

Close weather...is tough. And in that ballpark, 80% is almost witchcraft. When it comes to seasons it gets better, - or how the frack do you think anyone can foreasy a colder season in NY in January trather than July, if he can't tell the weather next week?

As for 1-2 degrees, - that's pretty much actually. On a world scale might I add.

Then on to weather tracking and modern science. Ahem, weather tracking on several spots on the world, as well as reports of the navies of the world in various places at sea, - those go back a few hundred years. The puzzle of navy reports (notably British) are being put together with modern science, but if you claim that ACCURATE measures have only existed since the 70's, you would be referring to the 1870's, minus some years.
SATTELLITE MEASURES around the globe measuring thermal issues are of course more fitting there. They have actually reveiled shocking issues such as the cooling effect of vegetated land....that's that.

Then the Jet wind. Effect on weather systems please?

Finally CO2.
I think it is overrated. In the sense that you can tell a fact, you don't have to shout it. But that's however just what you need for thick skulls.

[Angus]

You forget one important thing.
Handouts for the hobbits could come from anyone. Including oil power.