Author Topic: Piracy, DRM, and Mini D  (Read 1564 times)

Offline bj229r

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« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2007, 05:52:55 AM »
I've downloaded every 1-hit wonder from the 60's and early 70's (Can't find most of them in stores anyhow, and 99% of them got screwed out of their royalties anyway) ....but I'm hard-pressed to find ANY modern artist whom I would even STEAL off internet, much less buy
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Offline Catalyst

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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2007, 06:41:14 AM »
we used to record albums tape to tape...

now its P2P...

wake up and smelly de flowers would ya...

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2007, 06:41:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
Let me give you a testimonial:


The Beastie Boys, Dr Dre, and MANY other artists PROMOTE and ENCOURAGE the use of P2P software.    

MiniD, I have about 78GB of mp3's on my Home HD.   About a quarter of them I have downloaded off of P2P.    Of that 25%, I have bought about 50 CD's that I NEVER would have bought had I not been able to hear it first.  

Prior to P2P's, my brother taped the entire Pink Floyd Catalog (to the Final Cut), alot of Queen, and other's.   Back then "that was a no-no".    I have both CD catalogs now.   I'm sure that they'd "side with you" that they hate P2P's.    :rofl    

Your argument holds NO WATER.    There are MILLIONS like me.    Wait, you're Holier than thou.    I got it now.   In the meantime, set the watermelon shovel down, you look tired.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 06:43:58 AM by Masherbrum »
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Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2007, 06:45:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
I've downloaded every 1-hit wonder from the 60's and early 70's (Can't find most of them in stores anyhow, and 99% of them got screwed out of their royalties anyway) ....but I'm hard-pressed to find ANY modern artist whom I would even STEAL off internet, much less buy


Beej,

Supergrass
Oasis
and many other's


I'll talk to you on squad when I see you next.
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Offline Mini D

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« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2007, 07:57:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
The Beastie Boys, Dr Dre, and MANY other artists PROMOTE and ENCOURAGE the use of P2P software.  
Artists that promote and encourage P2P should abandon publishers and release their stuff only on the internet. That's putting your money where your mouth is. Look up "Harvey Danger" to find out what I'm talking about. Anyone that "promotes or encourages" but still uses major record labels is two faced.

Quote
MiniD, I have about 78GB of mp3's on my Home HD.   About a quarter of them I have downloaded off of P2P.    Of that 25%, I have bought about 50 CD's that I NEVER would have bought had I not been able to hear it first.  
So? Did you need to download it and put it on your mp3 player to evaluate that? This does not seem to be what the "debate" is about. It's odd how everyone wants to try to make it about this instead of pointing out there's also alot of music they download, keep and don't buy because they don't like the rest of the album, don't like this or don't like that.... yet, they still keep the stolen product.

When you're speeding is it because the state is over controlling and you don't subscribe to the bs laws that govern you or is it just that you want to go faster and are willing to risk it? One is justifying breaking the law and the other is simply doing it.
Quote
Prior to P2P's, my brother taped the entire Pink Floyd Catalog (to the Final Cut), alot of Queen, and other's.   Back then "that was a no-no".    I have both CD catalogs now.   I'm sure that they'd "side with you" that they hate P2P's.    :rofl  
Did you know that the RIAA made money off of that duplicate? Did you also know that the quality of that duplicate was greatly reduced from a record? The issue at hand seems to be that perfect duplicates are now readily available. Hell, most of Vista's new DRM applies to HD only yet it's the end of the world.
Quote
Your argument holds NO WATER.    There are MILLIONS like me.    Wait, you're Holier than thou.    I got it now.   In the meantime, set the watermelon shovel down, you look tired.
I'm holier than thou? No. I'm just not pretending that stealing isn't really stealing. I'm not pretending that attempts at DRM are purely a result of the evil RIAA and have nothing to do with piracy. I'm not pretending that there's so much good that comes from stolen software/music/movies that it should be allowed and even encouraged/promoted.

I find it odd that, lately, Steve Jobs has been championed as an opponent of DRM. This is the same steve jobs that has controled the very hardware used on his computer components before he left as CEO of apple and as soon as he came back. This is the same Steve Jobs that would be more than happy with DRM if every portable music device were apple and every song were sold by iTunes. This is the same Steve Jobs that is realizing that a proprietary DRM controlled by Apple will mean  a different DRM is created that everyone else uses (or they succumb to apple's demands) that makes it apple vs the world (yet again) or they go with something non-proprietary and Apple risks their producer status and revenue by abandoning iTunes in favor of someone who specializes or controls the music rather than a computer company.

I also find it odd that when discussing DRM, piracy is always defended. Very odd, given that DRM is not about piracy but rather control.

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2007, 08:54:25 AM »
You are tap dancing good.   I rest my case.    

There are millions like me.   I am the RIAA's worst nightmare, I "illegally download" music and then turn around and buy CD's helping the record companies.
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Offline Mini D

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« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2007, 09:35:00 AM »
Tap dancing? You have not made a point other than to say "I steal music, but once in a while I buy an album too". How is that supporting anything?

The fact that you steal is all the RIAA needs to justify action. That is all that is needed to justify the existance of DRM. The rest is just petty excuses. This really isn't that complex.

I'm not championing the RIAA. That is a claim apologists constantly make. I am stating there is a very clear cause and effect that is completely being dismissed by the likes of you and vulcan. The innocent victims are not the people that attempt to justify theft.

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2007, 11:45:34 AM »
I stoped downloading but I also stoped buying their products as a protest.

Going on for 3 years, they've already lost about $3000 on this single consumer. Many of my favourite artists I found through borrowed or copied media and later ended up purchasing their every single record ever made on cd's. Heck one of my favourite bands I found through hearing 1 song on the radio, searching with the song name and then loading their album through p2p. At that time the local music stores didn't have them available and without p2p I'd never even find out who was the artist.

Good riddens RIAA keep your stinking premium licensed crap.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 11:48:09 AM by MrRiplEy[H] »
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Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2007, 04:06:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
I'm not championing the RIAA. That is a claim apologists constantly make. I am stating there is a very clear cause and effect that is completely being dismissed by the likes of you and vulcan. The innocent victims are not the people that attempt to justify theft.


Who's apologising? I'm not.

My point is DRM is only encouraging people to copy their music/movies from other sources. The article I linked to affirms that.

Answer honestly mini d, as DRM increases do you think piracy will decrease?

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2007, 05:19:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
I stoped downloading but I also stoped buying their products as a protest.

Going on for 3 years, they've already lost about $3000 on this single consumer. .


Heh, I haven't bought a single piece of music for 13 years. During the years I've downloaded music only on one occasion.

I haven't bought music for one reason only: More money for other goodies that give more fun per buck. Music was and is too expensive. There's enough music in the radio and internet (legal sources!). Too bad that our greedy copyright organizations over here in Finland killed the local internet radios with their outrageous pricing.

Offline moot

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« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2007, 05:23:01 PM »
The RIAA is no more defendable than P2Ping copyrighted stuff.
Middle men just milk anything they can.. the law is just a convenience.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2007, 05:55:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
The RIAA is no more defendable than P2Ping copyrighted stuff.
Middle men just milk anything they can.. the law is just a convenience.


The industry digged this hole for itself when it failed to provide a digital market for music.

For most people the biggest thing about p2p has always been

A) Ease of use
B) Ability to search your favorite music online
C) Extended catalog of rare music items

For me p2p was like heaven. All of the sudden I could roam through thousands of titles at my own home and sample them for new artists. Almost whatever you typed on search, you found in an instant. No more 20 minute drive to a record store, manual searching through racks of records and then 30 minute line-up to the preview booths with the next customer already sweating you from behind.

The media being free is only a bonus. Honestly most of the music, especially on early days, were/are so low quality that no-one would want to pay for it anyway. Speaking from either artistic or audible quality.
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Offline moot

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« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2007, 06:08:59 PM »
P2P has no licensing at all.. It's like walking into a records shop and just shoplifting.
There's already website distributions set up, http://www.bleep.com  etc.  You can listen before buying.. It's like P2P, but legal.
What's still needed is a way for someone to put music that's out of print up to such a website or online service for anyone to see, listen and buy.

GTO - What product has the RIAA made?  The RIAA is just a middleman.. at most you could say they deserve a share of the records' sale price for the music's packaging.
They're vultures.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 06:14:34 PM by moot »
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Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2007, 06:17:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
P2P has no licensing at all.. It's like walking into a records shop and just shoplifting.


Actually it is not. P2P is a breech licensing, not theft. When you steal something from a record shop you are actually taking property. When you download off P2P you are not taking property, just like a LEGITIMATE music download, the difference is a legitimate music download also includes a license from the copyright owner granting you the right to listen to said music.

It is important to note that the RIAA is using this definition itself to push for the ability to control how and when you listen to the music you buy.

Guys, back on topic. Regardless of whether piracy is justified or not, do you think DRM will push more people to pirate their music and movies?

Offline Sundowner

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« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2007, 06:47:47 PM »
Umm.. excuse me, but I can't remember ever seeing anyone accosted by the RIAA for DOWNLOADING music.

I think it's only "illegal" if you  SHARE/DISTRIBUTE copyrighted material.(Making available for other users to download from you)

Anyone have a link showing where the RIAA filed against someone for DOWNLOADING only?

I could easily be mistaken on this point, if so I stand corrected ahead of time.

Regards,
Sun
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