Sinister motives for der 'Vader

[hubsonfire]

According to some of these guys, the rest of the players are ignorant, and they wouldn't know what was added or what to do with it anyway, so it really doesn't matter if we get a Lame War MA monster or an early/mid/scenario filler.

[Karnak]

A-26 is nice, don't get me wrong, I just think other things are more important.

I certainly won't complain if we get the A-26.  Nor will I if we get the B-25, P-39 or Yak-3.

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

Have you ever tryed to catch a b26 at 10k after climbing upto it?
ya'll want to add something even faster?

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
According to some of these guys, the rest of the players are ignorant, and they wouldn't know what was added or what to do with it anyway, so it really doesn't matter if we get a Lame War MA monster or an early/mid/scenario filler.

Let's look at the demographics at play here.

Maybe 1 player in 10 actually logs into the Forums.  Probably a lot less than that when factoring in the 2-week trials and the kinds of questions I see posted in the in-game Help Channel, and I'm not sure if the trial players also get a vote on the plane.  It is not the numbers in the Forums that will carry the vote for the new plane, but the greater numbers of players in the game.
That said:

Point#1
The MAJORITY of players of AHII play in the two LW arenas.  The participation in EW, MW, SEA, and AvA combined does not add up to the participation of ONE LW arena.  Also, a very large number of the players in the LW arena tend to fly Low-ENY aircraft: Pony-D, La-7, Niki, Spit16, P47N, CHogs, most of the time.   This makes up the majority of the voting population.

Point#2
The B-25 performance:
It carried less bomb load than the B-26 , has a lower climb rate than the B-26.  In fact, the B-25 might have the second worse rate of climb in the game better only than the Lancaster, depending on which spec numbers HTC follows.  Additionally the Lanc can carry over 4-1/2 times the bomb load and has a higher top speed at altitude.  The B-25's best role is in an EW addition for EW Arena, SEA events, and AvA.  It's out of date for LW use.  


Question:  Why would the Voting population defined by Point#1 vote for a plane defined under Point#2?  (For that matter, how did the population under Point#1 pass up a LW fighter with 3 X 20mm cannons and better than average performance numbers?)  
That just does not add up that the majority of players in the vote, in LW, in low ENY planes, would vote for an EW medium bomber with low performance numbers, yet pass up mid-level fighters and attack planes they could use more effectively where they spend their time at in game.


Only alternative reasoning I can think of to explain that:
* There are players voting for an easy target to go after in LW arenas?
* There are players voting for a carrier launched B-25 for Doolittle Raids?
* There are players voting for the only plane on the list they have heard of from movies, and Doolittle Raid fame?  Simple name recognition.
* There are players voting for the 75mm cannon version (how that is supposed to survive with  ENY 5 enemy planes around, with its performance numbers, I'm not too sure).  A slow firing 75mm that I might add was primarily used in anti-shipping operations (transports, fishing boats, barges, freighters) during the war --- not really meant, or effective, in anti-armor role.


So, yes, be it the "Proles", the "unwashed masses", a study in Nietzsche and self interest, or little Joey Goebbels being right about "the mass mind is far more primitive than we can imagine", there is definitely a discrepancy between the actions and habits and self interests shown of the voting public, and the planes that have been dropped from the list so far and some of those that continue to be in the running.  


So "ignorant" by literal definition, though not it's most common use, could fit:

# uneducated in the fundamentals of a given art or branch of learning; lacking knowledge of a specific field; "she is ignorant of quantum mechanics"; "he is musically illiterate"
# unaware because of a lack of relevant information or knowledge; "he was completely ignorant of the circumstances"

[jon]

tedrbr
Does it really matter?
this is a big popularity contest.
i may or may not agree with you.
but in the end all it is is a popularity contest.none of the fighter planes in this contest would change the way the MA is played. the attack planes may have some effect. but a bomber? the one with the most fun factor is the one I will vote for! but i will not say what that is, because the Italian wolf will put the curse on it if I do!

[Brooke]

Originally posted by tedrbr

Question:  Why would the Voting population defined by Point#1 vote for a plane defined under Point#2?  

Because it's got electrolytes.

[bozon]

The A-26 will contribute nothing special to the MA. Non of the potential new planes will.
the main areanas need a troop trasporter, a bomber and a fighter to work and that's it. It doesn't matter one bit if these are American or German planes, if they are WWI or x-wings, if they were produced by the thousands, or if they are rare proto-types.

For the LWA where everything is enabled, the historical part is just a flavour, not the essense. In EWA, MWA, where the planeset is limited, a shortage in veriety is more pronounced. For special events, the planeset gaps are a real problem - and here, the A26 doesn't help at all. A plane such as the P-39 on the other hand, will fill quite a few slots both as American fighter and as a Russian fighter, in many scenarios. In LWA low alt fights, it will not be such a bad plane either - it worked for the russians.

A-26 is a cool plane. There are other just as cool planes that will be better for the game.

[Charge]

"Beyond the more altruistic motives of adding a second perk-worthy buff ride to the game for buff drivers to spend their perk points on."

If that is the case I would have rather added HE-177 "Greif" with Hs 293 or FX 1400 "bombs"...  

http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/rpav_germany_hr.html

-C+

[4deck]

Looking good so far, round 4 begins, and we need all to vote for the little bugger, that will get much playabilty. I may even fly it instead of my beloved B26 from now on. We shall see. But please dont forfiet your vote. I would really love to see this plane in game, perked or otherwise. I also would like to see it with drones.

Cheers mates
and good luck:aok

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by Charge
"Beyond the more altruistic motives of adding a second perk-worthy buff ride to the game for buff drivers to spend their perk points on."

If that is the case I would have rather added HE-177 "Greif" with Hs 293 or FX 1400 "bombs"...  

http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/rpav_germany_hr.html

-C+

Actually, the He-177 'Griffin', in a late model, less Zippo-like version, has been suggested as a perk-worthy ride, along with B-29 and Mossie bomber version, in addition to A-26.

What really hurts the He-177's chances as a game addition was the guided munitions: the Fritz X  German air-launched anti-ship missile, and the Henschel Hs 293 anti-shipping, radio-controlled rocket/glide bomb.   Won't see those added to the game. CV's easy enough to kill now.

Then there is the 350mph speed at 21,000 feet and 30,000+ foot service ceiling and 7,200 kg/15,800 lb bomb load.  High speeds and high altitude with large bomb load being part of the argument against the B-29 addition to the game.    

Comes down to last fighter on the list, an early war medium bomber with worse performance than the B-26, or the 'Vader at this point.

[MotorOil1]

Originally posted by Karnak
:

A-26:
14 guns x 12.5 rounds per second per gun  = 175 rounds per second.

Spitfire Mk I/Hurricane Mk I:
8 guns x 20 rounds per second per gun = 160 rounds per second.

 

Airsoft Minigun X8  = 400 rounds per second

You're comparing 50s to 303s

[swareiam]

Imho, the B-25 and the P-39 will get eaten alive in the LW arenas. and we all know thats where most people fly. the only gaps i see are in the EW and MW arenas,where those 2 planes would fare very well.

History tells a different story...

Quote from Wikipedia article on the P-39 Airacobra.
_____________________________ ____________

In the relatively low-altitude operations in the East, the lack of a turbocharger was not as great a handicap. The low-speed, low-altitude turning nature of most air combat on the Russian Front suited the P-39's strengths rather than its inherent weaknesses. The second-highest scoring Allied ace, Pokryshkin, flew the P-39 from late 1942 until the end of the war; his unofficial score in the Airacobra stands at nearly 60 Luftwaffe aircraft.
_____________________________ ____________

A good pilot at low altitudes should fair well in this aircraft.


Cheers:aok

[-SR-]

I think if the Vader wins it should be free like the Mossie. Save the perks for a B29.

-SR-:noid

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by -SR-
I think if the Vader wins it should be free like the Mossie. Save the perks for a B29.

-SR-:noid

Seriously doubt A-26 would ever be added without a perk cost.  It would relegate just about all other medium bombers and attack planes to the hangar.  It would also result it way too much use of HO tactics with all those .50's to grief all other players.  
No, it has to come at a cost.  Same reason C-Hog comes at a cost.  Possibly with both B model operating alone, and C model that can operate with drones.  

B-29 we'll never see, outside of *maybe* a Convention plane (and I doubt even they would open that can of worms).  Too high, too fast, too large a bomb load....  few interceptors in game that could reach it at the upper end of it's performance envelop.  
Add to the fact that, I'm not sure that the B-29, which loaded, weighs twice what the Lancs and B-24's in game do, could even get off the runways of most of the airfields in the game.   B-29 addition would require changes to tiles, and quite possibly in the dar bar system to give a chance to intercept them.

[Rino]

Wow, now even the HTC guys have been added to the great unwashed
list.  Methinks they alone know whether they want the Invader perked or
not.   Assuming of course that the sentimental favorites bow out this round.