Why did we go into Iraq?

[Gh0stFT]

you know, innocence, the first casualty of war.... and so on
DREDIOCK, support your troops at all cost no matter what you belief
even if its the wrong thing??
Well then, leave the brain off and hail to the fuhrer, you will be judge by your next generation anyway.

[john9001]

so Gh0stFT, retreat and surrender is the best option you have?

[Gh0stFT]

John thats option C.)
option A.) is what DREDIOCK suggests,
i would suggest option B.)

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Hazzer
Yeah toppling a little tinpot dictator was worth billions of dollars,thousands of american lives, and the destabilisation of the Region,not to mention half a million innocent Iraqi's with more to come.Well Done.When are you going to sort out all the other dictators.Mugabe? how about china...No ??no interest.

 Not got the stomach?you swallowed Bush's propaganda Hook,line, and sinker.

Why are you in Iraq?look in the mirror.

Good thing you Brits knew better than to get involved in this one!

Funny, I don't recall Italy, and Germany, bombing Pearl Harbor, that damn FDR sent us into a European war for nothing. He could have just ignored Hitlers rantings and genocide. His declaration of war on America meant nothing, just idle treats.

[john9001]

why did USA invade france in WW2, france was no threat to the USA and had no WMD's and no oil.

[john9001]

Originally posted by Dadano
From that Time article I linked to earlier, dated Monday, Nov. 13, 2000.

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Europe's dream of promoting the euro as a competitor to the U.S. dollar may get a boost from SADDAM HUSSEIN. Iraq says that from now on, it wants payments for its oil in euros, despite the fact that the battered European currency unit, which used to be worth quite a bit more than $1, has dropped to about 82[cents]. Iraq says it will no longer accept dollars for oil because it does not want to deal "in the currency of the enemy."
The move hurts Iraq, the U.N. and the countries receiving reparations. So why is Saddam doing it? Diplomatic sources say switching to the euro will favor European suppliers over U.S. ones in competing for Iraqi contracts, and the p.r. boost that Baghdad would probably get in Europe would be another plus.
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i don't understand, you take your dollars and buy euros, take the euros and buy oil.

it seems simple to me, but i am a simple person.

[crockett]

Originally posted by Sandman
There is just one clear winner in this fiasco.

Israel.

You forgot about Halliburton

[Gh0stFT]

john, you talking about a former world war,
one Dictator with a few allies against whole WORLD.
Have i missed something, i cant remember Saddam
attacked the world again after Gulf war I. ?
where is the reason ??

[crockett]

Originally posted by Elfie
Just think of the money that could be made if you got in on the ground floor of a new energy source. Mebbe these folks in office aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.....or the garage.....or the toolbox....

Oh na they are in on that too.. They are pushing Corn Ethanol. Which will cost us more than gas costs now. Trust me they aren't dumb and by no means do they not know how to screw us over to make a buck.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
John thats option C.)
option A.) is what DREDIOCK suggests,
i would suggest option B.)

which is what?
Piss and moan over a situation that isnt going to significantly change anytime soon?

[Wes14]

 we can end the iraqi war,just take 40 Ah'ers train them how to fly B52's and B2's

and have one bigass milkrun on iraq

[BigGun]

Originally posted by Dadano
Would like to hear your take on it BigGun. I found this from Time and this one from  CNN.

Neither one of those links discuss anything saying the $ is inflated because of oil. They just talk about Iraq wanting to trade oil in euros.

[BigGun]

Originally posted by Viking
When you find time please do discuss. I'd love to hear your perspective on the matter.

Will discuss when have time, maybe Thursday or Friday.

Just curious about one thing & how it fits into your theory. How is it the dollar has been on downward trend (weakening) for most part of this century, at a time when the price of crude has skyrocketed? Wouldn't significant increases in the price of oil inflate the dollar? Recent history has been oil going up, value of dollar going down, just contrary to your theory.

I did find it interesting that at the time Iraq wanted to switch to Euros they were only pumping about 5% of the world output, hardly a major influence one way or the other.

[Viking]

Originally posted by BigGun
Just curious about one thing & how it fits into your theory. How is it the dollar has been on downward trend (weakening) for most part of this century, at a time when the price of crude has skyrocketed? Wouldn't significant increases in the price of oil inflate the dollar?

No. The value of the Dollar has nothing to do with the price of Oil, or vice versa. It is the fact that the majority of international trade is done with US Dollars, Oil trade being the biggest trade of all, that is propping up the Dollar value. The central banks of all oil trading nations (both buyers and sellers) have to stock billions of Dollars to facilitate international trade.

Originally posted by BigGun
I did find it interesting that at the time Iraq wanted to switch to Euros they were only pumping about 5% of the world output, hardly a major influence one way or the other.

The influence was a lot bigger than your limited focus on Iraq alone. Saddam almost got the snowball rolling (until you stopped it with armed force). Other oil exporting nations like Iran, Libya even Saudi Arabia was publically considering switching to the Euro.

Instead of me continuing to insult the English language with my limited English economics vocabulary I'll let Richard Benson, President of the Specialty Finance Group LLC, present what is in essence my view on the matter (though I obviously do not share his enthusiasm for a continuation of the status quo):

Oil, the Dollar, and US Prosperity

Richard Benson, SFGroup

August 8, 2003

Like many Americans, I greatly enjoy air conditioning in the summer, heat in the winter, and gas for my sport utility vehicle. I also happen to enjoy traveling to those civilized lands that take modern conveniences for granted - such prosperity takes a lot of energy.

In the United States, we stopped being energy independent many years ago. The rest of the world, including Europe and Asia, also come up empty in the energy department. Russia has enough oil to export for a few years until their economy develops; Japan has zilch, and China and India can never, on their own, meet the need for oil to accommodate over 2 billion drivers.

If you take the time to examine a simple map of where the Oil Reserves are in the world, you'll notice that two-thirds of the reserves sit in the Middle East, with a massive concentration in Iraq, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia.

The Dollar has grown to be the world currency for settling debts, and, with around 75% of foreign central banks holding their currency in reserves, the Dollar is still the World Reserve Currency. Only recently has the Euro come into existence as a possible viable alternative as a financial asset, that can be used to settle accounts, and store value.

The level of prosperity in the United States has, in no small measure, been helped by the fact that we have run massive deficits with the rest of the world. The US has been able to run up over $3 Trillion in debts to purchase goods and services from abroad that have yet to be paid for really. The world has been willing to accept dollar assets as investments and Asia remains delighted to have their Central banks buy Treasury and Agency securities because the United States is sending Asia our manufacturing jobs. However, at some point, the day will come when foreign dollar asset holders will want to spend their dollar reserves on something of value. There is only one thing that has universal value to all modern economies - OIL!

In the real world (which is a long way from Hollywood and the Liberal Media), the one factor underpinning American prosperity is keeping the dollar the World Reserve Currency. This can only be done if the oil producing states keep oil priced in dollars, and all their currency reserves in dollar assets. If anything put the final nail in Saddam Hussein's coffin, it was his move to start selling oil for Euros.

The US is the sole super power and we control and dictate to the Middle East oil producers. America has the power to change rulers if they can't follow the "straight line" the US dictates. America's prosperity depends on this. Moreover, Europe wants to be warm in the winter and we don't want to go down a road that leads to conflict with Asia over oil. It remains in our interest, as well as the rest of the world's, that the US insures that oil is available to all, at a reasonable price.

Removing a bloody tyrant in Iraq is certainly better for the world than seeing what might happen in Japan and China if they started freezing in the winter. Real wars are fought over oil. Germany invaded Russia for the oil in the Caucasus.

Japan bombed Pearl Harbor because the US cut off their oil. Those were real wars because the national interest, and the right to survive, were at stake (the Vietnam War was a disaster because there was no real national interest served by slaughtering peasants and American troops). The war in Iraq is a sideshow by comparison but it offers huge national interest.

At present, we notice that many US citizens are exercising their "freedom of screech" to politicize the fact that the current President miss-stated the case for immediate war with Iraq. Perhaps the President should be praised for "doing what was right" for America's interests, even though the Administration could be faulted for the "way it was done". I, for one, would not want to bring back an Arab oil embargo and long lines at the gas pump.

Governments have secrets. If politicians always told the truth, there wouldn't be any secrets. So, if governments are to keep secrets, how can you fault a politician for not telling the whole truth? We would assert that the President failed to present the real case for Iraq, which is: 1) prosperity for America based on controlling Middle East oil, and on maintaining the Dollar as the World Reserve Currency, and 2) peace and stability, which the guaranteed access to oil brings to the world.

We believe that the US Treasury deficit, and the US Trade deficits, are massive stock and credit bubbles, courtesy of the Federal Reserve. These deficits will cause significant disruption to the value of the Dollar and to US prosperity, all on their own. We do not need to give up de facto control over Middle East Oil, which in turn underpins the Dollar as the World Reserve Currency. Such action, which may be welcomed by the Liberal Media, would quickly end America's role as an economic super power and lead to the sudden and permanent demise of our prosperity.

If foreign central banks could no longer believe that holding Dollars guarantees access to oil, there would be no real reason to hold Dollars. With the US running deficits of 5% for budget and trade, in the real world the Dollar would collapse, along with our bond market, stock market, real estate market, and economic way of life.

We believe, like George Soros believes, that the dollar will weaken on fundamental grounds. Unlike Mr. Soros, we do not wish to see a catastrophic "dollar crash" (his motives should be questioned after having made $1 Billion after having helped crash the Pound). If the dollar cratered, even a "limousine liberal" could only afford a Kia.

[Dadano]

Good find Viking. That article sums the idea up nicely.