Author Topic: Can a F-22 fly like this?  (Read 2781 times)

Offline Wes14

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2007, 07:18:01 PM »
:confused: i heard that Russia is already designing a plane to counter the F-22

like the Su-37 was made to counter the F-15 ;)
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Offline Ripsnort

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2007, 07:22:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wes14
:confused: i heard that Russia is already designing a plane to counter the F-22

like the Su-37 was made to counter the F-15 ;)

Tit for tat, dating back to when Grog had a big club, and Mog made a club with spikes....

The F-15 kicks the SU-37's butt with AWACS in the general vicinity, without AWACS its a pretty darn even battle (assuming we're talking a missile engagement)

Offline 1K3

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2007, 07:31:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
What Uro's are really pissed about is that the US never exports its own special-stash versions of military aircraft, which can kick the crap out of the exported versions. ;)


US Exported the most advanced F-15 variant to S. Korea... The F-15K

Offline Ripsnort

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2007, 07:53:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
US Exported the most advanced F-15 variant to S. Korea... The F-15K
I didn't know Asia was European. ;) Glad my kids don't attend the skools you do. ;)

On a serious note, the F-15K is it still based on an airframe that's roughly what, 34 years old now? It's really reached it limits compared to the newer 21st century fighters that are NOT being exported, like the F-22.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2007, 07:56:57 PM by Ripsnort »

Offline eagl

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2007, 07:54:46 PM »
Back to the original post, the current full-up F-22 demo puts the flanker demo to shame.  In half of the flanker maneuvers, the pilot puts the plane into an extreme position and then the plane just sort of falls off back to a flying attitude.  This is obvious to just about any pilot who has ever flown high performance military aircraft.  It can't actually hold those crazy positions and it is certainly not fully controllable in many of those maneuvers.  Look at the cobra maneuver...  It will quite often recover back to level flight with just a little bit of rotation.  That's because the plane has been flown past the point where it's controllable, and the pilot can't really do much to direct the plane until it gets back to a normal attitude.

Yes, the flanker has pretty amazing maneuverability and capabilities, but after seeing the F-22 demo, to some extent the flanker demo is about as impressive as throwing an arrow backwards and applauding when the pointy end moves back to the front.

The F-22 remains fully controllable through the demo and does not rely on the natural or computer-enhanced stability of the plane to recover from any airshow maneuvers.  And even being limited to controllable maneuvers that any F-22 pilot could perform, the demo maneuvers are in my opinion at least as impressive as the flanker demo maneuvers that can't be flown by anyone but a specially trained flanker demo pilot.

If you have a chance to see a full-up F-22 demo, you should definately go see it.  I think it's amazing.  If you see the F-22 at an airshow and it doesn't do some weird stuff, then either the plane is partially broken, they're operating under some sort of flight restriction that day, or it's not the real demo team.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2007, 07:56:58 PM by eagl »
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Offline AKH

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2007, 08:01:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'd take a F-22 with a U.S. Airforce pilot over any aircraft in the world and give you 4 to 1 odds.

Out of interest, what odds would you give for RAF Jaguars against USAF F-15s?
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Offline eagl

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2007, 08:04:58 PM »
Watch the flight controls during the F-22 and Flanker videos...  You can see that while every single maneuver the F-22 does is in direct response to moving flight controls from maneuver entry through exit, the flanker flight controls are often simply centered for maneuver exit.  Not once does the F-22 nose drop or fall all by itself... The pilot places the nose up or down at will.  The Flanker flat turn (looks like a spin) is ended by a dive followed by a climb, but the same F-22 maneuver ends with the pilot stopping the turn and pulling the nose right up into a climb without having to let the nose fall to gain airspeed first like the Flanker does.

Looking at the F-22 and Flanker elevators during the demos makes it clear which plane is being flown throughout each maneuver and which is not.
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Offline Ripsnort

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2007, 08:05:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKH
Out of interest, what odds would you give for RAF Jaguars against USAF F-15s?
With AWACS in the area? F-15.

Offline Ripsnort

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2007, 08:05:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
Watch the flight controls during the F-22 and Flanker videos...  You can see that while every single maneuver the F-22 does is in direct response to moving flight controls from maneuver entry through exit, the flanker flight controls are often simply centered for maneuver exit.  Not once does the F-22 nose drop or fall all by itself... The pilot places the nose up or down at will.  The Flanker flat turn (looks like a spin) is ended by a dive followed by a climb, but the same F-22 maneuver ends with the pilot stopping the turn and pulling the nose right up into a climb without having to let the nose fall to gain airspeed first like the Flanker does.

Looking at the F-22 and Flanker elevators during the demos makes it clear which plane is being flown throughout each maneuver and which is not.

Exactly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW2Hvu_mUdU&mode=related&search=

Offline AKH

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2007, 08:16:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
With AWACS in the area? F-15.


During Red Flag - I would imagine so.
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Offline Wes14

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2007, 08:19:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Tit for tat, dating back to when Grog had a big club, and Mog made a club with spikes....

The F-15 kicks the SU-37's butt with AWACS in the general vicinity, without AWACS its a pretty darn even battle (assuming we're talking a missile engagement)


wonder who would win in a good ol' fashion Cannon dogfight :)
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Offline mandingo

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2007, 08:29:23 PM »
Su37 is much more maneuverable than the F22, from what I know it has thrust vectoring in all directions, unlike the F22 which is primarily thrust vectoring in pitch.  

Which is fine, it doesn't hurt my American centric ego to admit that the F22 wasn't designed to be super maneuverable, it was designed to destroy planes from far away without being detected.  The thrust vectoring is only a bonus, not its main benefit.  

But the Su37 does look pretty evil...

Offline mandingo

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2007, 08:38:43 PM »
A fine example of American thrust vectoring taken to the extreme is the NASA X31 demonstrator:

The Mongoose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq7Lwdow3Eo
« Last Edit: June 22, 2007, 08:42:44 PM by mandingo »

Offline Wes14

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2007, 08:49:23 PM »
heres another video of that plane

Click
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Offline Ripsnort

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Can a F-22 fly like this?
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2007, 08:58:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mandingo
Su37 is much more maneuverable than the F22, from what I know it has thrust vectoring in all directions, unlike the F22 which is primarily thrust vectoring in pitch.  

Which is fine, it doesn't hurt my American centric ego to admit that the F22 wasn't designed to be super maneuverable, it was designed to destroy planes from far away without being detected.  The thrust vectoring is only a bonus, not its main benefit.  

But the Su37 does look pretty evil...
I think I'll listen to a real military jet pilot before the opinion of an online gamer. ;)

Quote
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
Watch the flight controls during the F-22 and Flanker videos...  You can see that while every single maneuver the F-22 does is in direct response to moving flight controls from maneuver entry through exit, the flanker flight controls are often simply centered for maneuver exit.  Not once does the F-22 nose drop or fall all by itself... The pilot places the nose up or down at will.  The Flanker flat turn (looks like a spin) is ended by a dive followed by a climb, but the same F-22 maneuver ends with the pilot stopping the turn and pulling the nose right up into a climb without having to let the nose fall to gain airspeed first like the Flanker does.

Looking at the F-22 and Flanker elevators during the demos makes it clear which plane is being flown throughout each maneuver and which is not.