Pack of pit bulls kills two.

[Elfie]

Really? Then why don't we read about Collies attacking people and mauling them? Or Golden Retrievers on a rampage? Maybe I just missed the poodles gone bad shows?

Nearly 5 million dog bites annually in the US, 800,000 of them requiring medical attention. You only hear about pit bulls, rottweilers etc because that is sensationalist news. When a poodle bites only the person that got bit cares.

You obviously didnt go check out any of the links I posted either.

[Elfie]

Pit bull isn't really even a breed as I am sure you know, but the term pit bull is an encompassing breed association to include the American Staffordshire Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Some people will include other breeds with similar features and size in the "pit bull" designation.

WRONG!! Pit bulls are a separate breed.

http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/americanpitbullterrier.html

They are very closely related to the American Staffordshire Terrier and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, but a separate breed. The American Kennel Club doesn't recognize the pit bull but the United Kennel Club does.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanstaffordshire.htm

In the nineteenth century in the English region of Staffordshire, crossing among the Bulldog and various terriers developed the muscular, active, combative Staffordshire Bullterrier. Brought to the United States, the breed was preferred by American breeders who increased its weight and gave it a more powerful head. Now recognized as a separate breed, the American Staffordshire is larger and heavier than his British cousin, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. After dog fighting was banned in the United States in 1900, two strains of these dogs were developed, a show strain and a fighting dog strain. The show strain was labeled the American Staffordshire, while the fighting dog strain was labeled the American Pit Bull Terrier. The two are now being recognized as separate breeds. Today the American Pit Bull Terrier is being bred with the same gentle qualities as the American Staffordshire Terrier.  They both make great pets with the right kind of owner. Some of the American Staffordshire Terriers talents are watchdog, guarding, police work, weight pulling and agility.

[Elfie]

You will see the statistics show fatalities from dog attack have the pit bull at twice the Rottweiller, 3 times the German Shepard, and infinitely worse than most all other breeds. And this is despite the fact that there are less pit bulls than the other breeds in our society.

I agree that when they do attack, pit bulls are more dangerous. However, I can not find any statistics on numbers of dogs owned by breed in this country. The pit bull is quite popular as are many other breeds.

[C(Sea)Bass]

See Rule #2

[Elfie]

I think it is really lame to just say that it is the owner and not the dog.

It all starts with day 1 when you bring the pup home Lazs. Breeds that tend to be aggressive absolutely MUST be socialized with as many other humans and animals as possible as soon as it is possible to do so.

Taking the pup to parks (on a leash of course) that have other folks with their dogs is an outstanding way to accomplish the socialization of the pup to other animals and humans at the same time.

Obedience training is the other absolute must. Sit, stay, down, come and heal commands need to be taught and the dog must learn to obey them regardless of his own wishes, obedience needs to be immediate.

Any dog that breaks a leash, pulls its leash from its masters hand has not been properly trained.

I can teach a dog to crap in one corner of the yard and that corner only. I can teach a dog to not touch it's food until I say it's ok, and it won't matter if I leave the house.

It's people that don't bother to teach their dogs anything that are the problem.

Any dog can be taught as long as one condition is met. The dog must have a desire to please.

Dogs that dont show a desire to please, can still be taught simply by not feeding the dog for a couple days. When you do feed him, make him sit while you place his food. In extreme cases this might require assistance from another person to ensure the dog stays put while the food is placed. Once it is placed, dont immediately allow the animal to go to his food, make him wait a minute or two. Once you let him go to his food, praise him and pet him while he eats. He will soon associate being fed (a pleasurable thing) to kindness and soft words, something all dogs like. He will want to please you (sitting and staying) in order to get his food. From that point, the rest is easy. Use food rewards like cheese or small pieces of hotdogs as rewards during the training process.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by TalonX
The percentage of pit bulls in this country is small compared to other breeds.  For them to lead the bite category proves my point.  They have to be statistically far more likely to bite than other breeds, or you'd expect parity with distribution.
Face it, pit bulls are dangerous to others (not the owners to my knowledge).

Can you show statistics that show a break down of dog ownership in the US by breed? Seventy three million dogs in the US and I can't find statistics for how many of which type are out there.

[Dago]

Originally posted by Elfie
It all starts with day 1 when you bring the pup home Lazs. Breeds that tend to be aggressive absolutely MUST be socialized with as many other humans and animals as possible as soon as it is possible to do so.

Taking the pup to parks (on a leash of course) that have other folks with their dogs is an outstanding way to accomplish the socialization of the pup to other animals and humans at the same time.

Obedience training is the other absolute must. Sit, stay, down, come and heal commands need to be taught and the dog must learn to obey them regardless of his own wishes, obedience needs to be immediate.

Any dog that breaks a leash, pulls its leash from its masters hand has not been properly trained.

I can teach a dog to crap in one corner of the yard and that corner only. I can teach a dog to not touch it's food until I say it's ok, and it won't matter if I leave the house.

It's people that don't bother to teach their dogs anything that are the problem.

Any dog can be taught as long as one condition is met. The dog must have a desire to please.

Dogs that dont show a desire to please, can still be taught simply by not feeding the dog for a couple days. When you do feed him, make him sit while you place his food. In extreme cases this might require assistance from another person to ensure the dog stays put while the food is placed. Once it is placed, dont immediately allow the animal to go to his food, make him wait a minute or two. Once you let him go to his food, praise him and pet him while he eats. He will soon associate being fed (a pleasurable thing) to kindness and soft words, something all dogs like. He will want to please you (sitting and staying) in order to get his food. From that point, the rest is easy. Use food rewards like cheese or small pieces of hotdogs as rewards during the training process.

And yet this really isn't necessary with a Golden Retriever or most any other breed to prevent them from mauling children, adults or other dogs to death.

[Torque]

Originally posted by Dago
Pit bull isn't really even a breed as I am sure you know, but the term pit bull is an encompassing breed association to include  the American Staffordshire Terrier  and Staffordshire Bull Terrier.  Some people will include other breeds with similar features and size in the "pit bull" designation.
 

actually it is the opposite dago, and that's my point

the ukc was founded in 1898 to give the 'american pit bull terrier' a working dog registry, as the snooty akc wanted nothing to do with fighting aspects of the breed.

in 1909 the america dog breeders association was created to solely document the lineage of apbt game stock as well. john p colby of 'colby kennels' the oldest breeder of the apbt being the mainstay, and yes i had a registered colby/red devil dog when i was a kid back in the 80's. the adba also published the pitbull gazette with stud and fight results etc...  due to politics at the ukc most if not all dog men of the times gravitated to the adba.

in the late thirties the akc jumped on the bandwagon during the 'little rascal' era because of the popularity of 'pete' who was a colby dog. colby sold dogs to people like thomas edison and roosevelt, it is a colby dog on the rca logo. but do to the politics of dog fighting the akc would only reconize apbt as 'american staffs' and refused the 'pitbull' part.

i think it is rather obvious now that the apbt is a distinct and unique breed, dogs bred from game stock and registered under the adba since the early 1900's should make it so. that's my point tho... if a dog is not registered under the abda and if it doesn't have game lineage it shouldn't be labeled an 'american pitbull terrier' by the media, but rather it should be labeled by the more generic term 'american staffordshire terrier'.

i agree with you about the rest.

[culero]

OK, Dago, fair enough with regard to the statistics. Thanks.

Still, my point remains. I'm like Elfie, I agree that if and when a pit bull attacks, its likely to cause severe damage. They're extremely strong dogs who were bred to bite hard. That makes sense, and I never disputed it.

What I disagree with is that they are more prone to bite by instinct and breeding than many other breeds of dog. I base that on, to be fair, anecdotal evidence, but its anecdotal evidence I believe strongly.

See, its my personal experience I am talking about. Indulge me and consider that.

First, I've been a "dog guy" all my life. I have owned many large dogs of various breeds, socialized with others who do so, and I live in an area where pit bulls specifically are a prevalent breed. Again specifically, they are prevalent here because dogfighting is prevalent here.

I know people personally who breed and fight them, so I have personal experience with the "bad" pit bulls. I agree with you 100% about those dogs. There's IMO no place for them in our community. Every time I have ever seen one loose from its cage or chain on its owner's property, I have immediately shot it dead. (True fact there, I can relate the circumstances of about half a dozen kills both on my property and elsewhere). If I see one loose that I don't know, I assume its bad just because.

However, all that said, I also know many more people who own them as pets. I have personal experience with these dogs, too. That experience has shown me that they're like any other breed when raised as a pet. They show, as a matter of fact, less tendency to aggression vs people than other breeds such as poodles (a #1 "biter" breed IMO), chows, blue heelers, etc.

So, bottom line, do I respect the potential for damage a strange pit bull presents? Hell yes. But I dispute that as a breed they are disposed to aggression vs *people* more than other breeds. Their breeding was specifically to make them aggressive vs other *dogs*, not people.

Side info as to my experience with dog ownership, I've had several German Shepherds, Dobermans, Labs, a Collie, and many mutts. I trained the Shepherds and Dobies to be excellent guard dogs, and my hunting Labs were well known locally for their skills. I'm not a dog neophyte by far. When I tell you I have direct experience with many pit bulls and have observed its primarily training rather than breeding that makes them dangerous when they are dangerous I say so advisedly.
 
That's why I say those who say different speak from ignorance.

[Shuckins]

From the posts offered up so far, I'd say the city-boys just don't get it.

It IS the owner.  Every aggressive, problem dog it has ever been my misfortune to come into contact with has been owned by a neanderthal.  The fighting breeds are stronger and more powerful than lap dogs, and that is the type of breed such an owner wants, to impress his friends and frighten his neighbors.  Such an individual could turn a golden retriever into a dangerous menace.

Responsible, level-headed owners almost never have aggressive, dangerous dogs.  

I've lived around and worked with many different working, hunting, and fighting breeds of dogs in my more than 50 years on the earth, and I can say that I've been threatened by several types.  Yet those that were most aggressive were those that had been trained to be that way.

My nephiew was, for quite some time, menaced by a chow owned by a neighbor, who allowed it to roam loose.  Repeated requests to the owner, some nice and others not so nice, to keep the dog up were of no avail.  He had a bad-ass dog and he liked having it wandering the neighborhood intimidating the locals.

One day, while working on his truck, the chow came into the yard and began to growl and make rushes at him.  He beat it away on two occasions with a fan belt, but it refused to leave, and returned to the attack a third time.

At that point, my nephiew's dog, a mountain cur named Gus, flew into a rage at the threat to his owner.  He hit the end of the chain that kept him tethered to a post, snapped it, and made full-tilt for the chow.  

Scratch one chow.  Yet, the fault lay not with the dog, but with the crap-brained twit that encouraged his aggression.

A good owner can raise the most ferocious fighting breed and never have a dangerous dog.

[Dago]

I agree a bad dog owner makes for a bad dog.  And I don't dispute other dogs are as likely to bite as a Pit Bull.   It is just the Pit Bull is most likely to kill.  Most dogs will bite and stop.  Pit bulls don't stop, they by nature don't stop till their victim dies.  That is one thing that makes the dog the danger it is.  The other is it's tendancy to overprotect, and become aggressive without either warning or provocation.  

My last dog was a Golden Retriever, and currently we are dog sitting my sons Yellow Lab while my son is serving overseas.  Those dogs don't see someone at the door, or walking accross the lawn as intruders, they see them as friends to sniff and get petted by.   A pit bull would be more likely to attack.

So, why would anyone want a dog that is such a danger and liability is beyond me, other than to boost their own lacking self-image.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Dago
And yet this really isn't necessary with a Golden Retriever or most any other breed to prevent them from mauling children, adults or other dogs to death.

It is necessary with all dogs. (Socialization and training) The larger breeds are all capable of killing humans. They are all capable of mauling other dogs. Socialization and training prevents this.

[Elfie]

My last dog was a Golden Retriever, and currently we are dog sitting my sons Yellow Lab while my son is serving overseas. Those dogs don't see someone at the door, or walking accross the lawn as intruders, they see them as friends to sniff and get petted by. A pit bull would be more likely to attack.

Even pit bulls can be like your golden retriever or your sons yellow lab. A lady my wife works with, her son has a pit bull that greets strangers with tail wagging and begging to be petted. That pit bull is a perfect example of one that has been properly trained and socialized, tell it to sit, and her butt immediately hits the ground and stays there until told otherwise.

I've seen many well behaved and non agressive, even friendly, pit bulls. I don't know what the answer is for the lazy owner that doesnt care enough about his pet to socialize/train it properly. I just know we can't blame the entire breed for the inactions of some owners.

[Holden McGroin]

Pits are not my favorite breed (Basset Hounds) but they have become a favorite of a**holes.  Pits become agressive if trained to do so.  They become bad dogs if they are mistreated.

But,

Pit Bulls serve as therapy/service dogs.  The Chako Rescue Association has Pit Bull therapy dogs in Texas, Utah and California.  Helen Keller even had a Pit Bull as her canine companion and helper. Cheyenne and Dakota are a team of hard-working Search-and-Rescue Pit Bulls in Sacramento, California.  They play an important role in their community by locating missing people in conjunction with the local Sheriff.  In their off-duty hours, they do charity work as therapy dogs.

Petey, the faithful dog of the The Little Rascals, was a Pit Bull.  He spent countless hours with children day after day and never hurt anyone.  He was one of the most intelligent Hollywood dogs of all time.

The RCA dog is a Pit Bull

America's first war dog was a Pit Bull named Stubby.  He earned several medals during World War I and was honored at the White House.  The Ken-L-Ration dog hero of 1993 was a Pit Bull named Weela.  She saved 30 people, 29 dogs, 13 horses and a cat during a flood in Southern California.  A Pit Bull named Bogart saved a four-year-old child from drowning in a swimming pool in Florida.  Dixie, the Pit Bull, was inducted into the Georgia Animal Hall of Fame after she saved some children from a Cottonmouth snake.

Treat any dog well and they will return in kind.

[culero]

Originally posted by Dago
snip
A pit bull would be more likely to attack.

This in a nutshell is what's in dispute. I disagree. In my experience a pit bull raised as a pet is no more likely to initiate an attack on a human than many other breeds. The statistics you quoted IMO are true due to the fact that many pit bull owners are ****-heads that train them to be aggressive, and that the breed is strong physically.