Author Topic: Downtimes (Read 1528 times)

ergRTC · « **Reply #30 on:** September 21, 2007, 08:07:46 PM »

???? Why not just hang in the DA humble? What if squads are one of the things you love about AH along with matched plane sets? What use is the ta152 if you cannot intercept b17s with it? Why fly the stuka if you are not escorted by 109es on your way to radar bases in england?

Those are the things that make AH fun. Screw head to head that is just practice for when it counts (scenarios!). The AvA makes scenario like action available all the time rather than on some particular night I have other paying obligations on. I still refuse to believe the CT was killed by anything. I was here when it happened and if my memory serves me it was because Dale wanted the name, not because squads were doing anything but keeping the numbers up. This anti squad talk is just silly. You end up flying in one if you are with more than 2 people and fighting in the AvA. What do you say to your friendlies humble: "Stay away your guys, I want to take on all 4 of these guys by myself!!!!"

Oldman731 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 21, 2007, 08:28:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by humble
Go back to the "pure" air war many of us cut are teeth on and you'll get numbers.

Humble, we appreciate all input, but the fact is that we've had pure air war for quite a long while now and it has not produced numbers. That may be a good thing (Dedalos, Kong) or a bad thing (the many who say they won't come in because there are no numbers), but it's a fact.

- oldman

humble · « **Reply #32 on:** September 22, 2007, 01:40:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by ergRTC
???? Why not just hang in the DA humble? What if squads are one of the things you love about AH along with matched plane sets? What use is the ta152 if you cannot intercept b17s with it? Why fly the stuka if you are not escorted by 109es on your way to radar bases in england?

Those are the things that make AH fun. Screw head to head that is just practice for when it counts (scenarios!). The AvA makes scenario like action available all the time rather than on some particular night I have other paying obligations on. I still refuse to believe the CT was killed by anything. I was here when it happened and if my memory serves me it was because Dale wanted the name, not because squads were doing anything but keeping the numbers up. This anti squad talk is just silly. You end up flying in one if you are with more than 2 people and fighting in the AvA. What do you say to your friendlies humble: "Stay away your guys, I want to take on all 4 of these guys by myself!!!!"

I'm simply stating the obvious reality....back when the average #'s in the MA were in the low hundreds we had 40+ in the CT almost every night. alot of people (myself included) were openly critical of the squads when they came to the CT...we were ignored and the CT died. literally just that simple....

Now in the DA in furball island its the jets, folks have asked they be disabled. We'll see what happens. The AvA has none of what FSO has and all the worst of the MA.

You dont need to be in a squad to fly well with others. In fact alot of the time I like my squaddies on the other side. When we fly mixed sets in the DA Bat and I love to square off...WHY...because we have a blast killing each other.

All you need to do is look at the "banter" even here. you have guys mouth off about "waxing" guys they couldnt even keep views on...let alone kill in a fair fight. They "talk" scenario" & "realism" but you dont see em in FSO or the scenarios. {this is not aimed at you BTW}. what they do is talk trash and hide behind the AVA....different barrel....same bad apples...same empty barrel.

The entire concept of a "squad" in the AvA is laughable. In fact the only place a squad really matters is in FSO...and every true quality squad flys it.

I think the reality here is that the entire meaning of a squad has been diluted. Here's a clip that illustrates how a good squad works. My squaddie asks if I want help...i'm waving it off when I have the lala behind me...he's actually pushing the fight and I dont want him picked...if he wins fine. I finally get him reversed and ping him up and he scoots...again perfectly fine...he's on the deck in hostile air...he pushed it as far as he could and left when he had to...and he got a from me...

A fun little fight

This is a informal squad op I used as a training write up on squad site. Twinboom had been stopping other squad from a capture and we decided to help. Again my "job" is to keep him busy as best I could. Again you have squad communication and the reality that my living or dieing was secondary to me keeping TB occupied and freeing up the others for the task at hand. playing a part

I hope the AvA takes back off, and if the current "plan" works I'll be the 1st to offer congrats. But the simple truth is that the real squads just dont have an interest in the BS that goes on in the AvA...

KONG1 · « **Reply #33 on:** September 22, 2007, 09:56:21 AM »

MrFork,
It just struck me as a definitive statement by someone privy to conversations all of us are not a part of. So now I'm curious. In your opinion, in what way is it not sustainable.

E25280 · « **Reply #34 on:** September 22, 2007, 10:06:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by humble
The entire concept of a "squad" in the AvA is laughable. In fact the only place a squad really matters is in FSO...and every true quality squad flys it.

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen.

humble · « **Reply #35 on:** September 22, 2007, 11:03:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by E25280
This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen.

How so...

In the FSO you have a tasked mission vs an equal and historically correct foe executed in the context of a broader mission set and team objective with a well thought out and balanced scoring system. You dont get to pick your mission or plane (all the time) and have to handle every aspect of air warfare from Jabo to CAP...

It is the only place 9other then scenarios where the true mettle of a squad is tested...and the best MA squads also shine in FSO week after week...

The CT WAS about a "code of conduct"....bring that back and it will grow.

KONG1 · « **Reply #36 on:** September 22, 2007, 12:14:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Oldman731
Humble, we appreciate all input, but the fact is that we've had pure air war for quite a long while now and it has not produced numbers. That may be a good thing (Dedalos, Kong) or a bad thing (the many who say they won't come in because there are no numbers), but it's a fact.

Numbers are easy, is that the goal? Low quality results in low numbers. Mediocrity results in high numbers. High quality results in low numbers. It's called a Bell Curve.

More Hamburgers are sold than pancreas, fish eggs and snails. More viewers for Jerry Springer than Charlie Rose. More people see the blockbuster action movie, read the harlequin romance, blah, blah, blah.

It's not that low numbers are good. The AvA is very good for a specific type of game play, low numbers are a predictable result, not a goal. If you change it to be very good at a different type of play, you won't have more numbers, you'll just have a different small group.

Numbers are easy - Just head for the middle.

E25280 · « **Reply #37 on:** September 22, 2007, 12:47:04 PM »

Humble, the whole attitude you have displayed in your last two reponses smacks of the narrow minded elitism that is so unfortunately prevailant in the game today. Paraphrasing:

"My sandbox is better than your sandbox." Whatever.

"My way of playing is the only right way to play." Pu-lease.

"There are no reasons to have squads unless you are doing FSO." What a joke.

There are a lot of ways to play this game, a lot of reasons to have squads, and most importantly, a lot of ways to have fun in this game. Why don't you check the condescension at the door if you are going to visit those of us who don't think your little sandbox is the end-all and be-all of AH.

Nothing wrong with advocating for your side, but I object to your unwarranted ridicule of those who enjoy something different.

humble · « **Reply #38 on:** September 22, 2007, 01:45:42 PM »

I logged in a bit ago...over 400 total in various MA...and 9 in DA (all at furball island) and 1 guy in AvA). This isnt about what I think...or what any one person thinks. Now furball island has been up for a week?? already you can find a good fight almost all the time.

The AvA sadly doesnt qualify as a sandbox right now...

I'm not talking about any style of play, simply the group dynamics....

The guys...or is it guy...or is it no one...with the "little sandbox" is the AvA itself. That wont change unless you change the culture itself. I'm not ridiculing anyone...

I flew the CT since the day it started. you could have 60+ in the AvA in less then 2 months with no problem if you simply stepped up and addressed the real issues.

MjTalon · « **Reply #39 on:** September 23, 2007, 11:34:50 AM »

sound's like a plan, i always wanted to try AvA but it's always empty. So i don't bother but if i ever see anyone in it i hop in the server instantly when i can. But nice plan, hope to see it executed in the near future

WMDnow · « **Reply #40 on:** September 23, 2007, 12:41:42 PM »

heres my idea for anti milkers:

Have about 5 people agree to have the weekly downtimes and it works, so, airfield B got hit by a guy, during agreement of the people. Once the numbers drop below about 5, or it becomes something like 5/1 on sides, it reverts to MA damage amount.

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #41 on:** September 23, 2007, 12:53:58 PM »

the other day i logged into AvA and it was just beddog and me in there. he was sitting in the tower downloading skins and so i took off in a B17 and went to bomb an ack factory from about 3000ft. while i mess around i talked with beddog about when he nearly had a real mid air collision flying a plane in real life. it was just for the heck of it since there was no other players to fight. so how many times does a loan player come into AvA empty and then do the same thing only for another to come in looking for a fight and say 'nice milker' before even asking if they had been waiting for a dogfight?

and as to milking, i dont know why thats a problem. we fly online to give us hundreds of different WW2 style scenes. I dont know about you guys but when i see a flight of bombers going over in a furball it really increases my enjoyment and immersion. same as with ground vehicals. These aspects AND the players who routinely man them in the battles make this game so much more than a fighter plane game, you absolutely never know what youre going to fly into. All our worn out cliches and gamer sub-catagories are just a classic human reaction to the diversity of the indivdual.

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #42 on:** September 23, 2007, 07:32:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
the other day i logged into AvA and it was just beddog and me in there. he was sitting in the tower downloading skins and so i took off in a B17 and went to bomb an ack factory from about 3000ft. it was just for the heck of it since there was no other players to fight. so how many times does a loan player come into AvA empty and then do the same thing only for another to come in looking for a fight and say 'nice milker' before even asking if they had been waiting for a dogfight?

Bat,
I do this every now and again....log in , no one is there so I grab a bomber or attack plane and go hit a target waiting for someone to show....if I grab a bomber, I look for one that has a nose mounted gun for the pilot if one is available......never have been called a milker yet......but then again I will fight what ever comes at me too.......( and prob lose rofl )

Tiger · « **Reply #43 on:** September 27, 2007, 01:30:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by humble

I flew the CT since the day it started. you could have 60+ in the AvA in less then 2 months with no problem if you simply stepped up and addressed the real issues.

And what would these 'real issues' be that you refer to?

humble · « **Reply #44 on:** September 27, 2007, 03:38:39 PM »

1st and formost recognize that the "squads" in the CT imbalanced game play. Any "single" invariably ran into 4, 5 or more "squaddies" and got ganged...repeatedly.

If the singles banded together then the "squaddies" went elsewhere.

The CT became a waste of time pretty quickly...

Basically you have two choices...

1) radically alter gameplay...create a "new" game with the same parts...

2) go back to the old AW FR arena which was focused on small group engagments...

a) eliminate porking/capture
b) bump ack leathality to max
c) keep bases close
d) use autoasigned side leveling if needed

There's a reason the AvA is dead even with 500+ users online most (98%+) of the time...the DA furball island had more players. It's simply an unenjoyable experience.

Now you can capture the 10% that wants fun "even" fights without the MA garbage if you eliminate the current AvA mentality...

Or if you can make it fly you can to a major overhaul...but if you dont change then mentality of the people who currently fly the AvA you'll get nowhere...