General Climate Discussion

[AKIron]

Yes, just as is was said, "DURING INTERGLACIAL WARMING".  That caveat is very important.  In historical context, CO2 leads.  On interglacial contexts, it lags.  There is a reason for that and I just explained it to you..... Yet you still feel the point is important without obviously recognizing the difference.

On the chart Al Gore used in his presentation every instance of increasing co2 was preceeded by temperature increases, every single one. Do you deny this or that he ignored this?

[Angus]

Hehe, being in all those threads, I must confess that I have not completely seen Gore's film. Just slabs from it.

[lazs2]

angus.. it is awful..   in england they have to show it as fiction at schools.

I think that what the alarmists are saying is...  "we don't understand all the things that change climate and we don't understand greenhouse gas.. even water vapor so.. we will take the one thing that we can change and say it is to blame."

What they say is that they don't understand how say... water vapor works but.. they assign a value to it.. they say that so much of it is responsible for so much warming.. they do that with dozens of factors.. they then say that since none of these factors in their mind account for the warming they are seeing.. it must be the one, in this case co2 that has changed the most.. even tho.. it is one of the tiniest of all possible warming effects.

They don't pretend to know how the others work or interact.  But all of a sudden.. they know exactly how co2 works... how even the tiniest percent difference in the atmosphere causes some sort of "tipping point" while.. all the while.. the other variables that they don't understand are interacting and changing.

I just think that they are pretending to one hell of a lot more understanding than they really have.   They, those who believe (an ever dwindling cadre of scientists) pretend that the science is exact and undeniable.   

lazs

[Angus]

Well, there is you and "they" Lazs, but remember I stated that I disagree with you on most of the issue.
IMHO CO2 is overrated while the total human impact is underrated. So while the "fight" goes on, I feel sad that issues closer to reality do not make it there.
What I saw of Gore's movie was IMHO a simplified version (or an attempt for that) of what is happening and why.
While I have no problem with the "what", - his "why" was IMHO too simple.
Maybe just me....but anyway, we can merrily jostle on with the "what" while doing more gentle wrestling on "why" 

[WWhiskey]

are we going for 200 o boy, well atleast we are on the right topic for it! no naked lady's to get Skuzzy'd (soo far)

[avionix]

In addition to the bulk mailing, OISM's website enables people to add their names to the petition over the Internet

When the Oregon Petition first circulated, in fact, environmental activists successfully added the names of several fictional characters and celebrities to the list

You mean to tell me that someone out ther was putting fake names on the list?  Come on, if you open the list up to online name additions, you are going to get that. 

It was probably Al Gore that did it so that he can run his Ponzi scheme business.   

[SlapShot]

What I find disturbing in particular is the number of people out there making a lot of money out of MMGW. They won't want that particular fire hose turned off.

And there ya have it ... the absolute root of all the GW hub-bub.

Scientist, in general, aren't stupid people ... they know how best to butter their "grant" bread and the GW "the sky is falling" is something that can make butter for them for quite some time ... at least until the global weather trends start to show a decline in the global temperature and then they will find some reason for that that will continue to generate butter for them.

I guess all the GW components don't affect the atmosphere over the state of Connecticut ... we are -15 degrees below the average temperature for Connecticut so far for 2008 ... go figure.

[VERTEX]

In order to gain some understanding of the global climate system, we must first understand what the earth has been capable of, regarding climate change, before, man could have possibly had an effect, so that current trends can be examined in the right context.

So I emplore all of you, please google, "laurentide ice sheet" and "wisconsin glaciation"

The web sites that come up under these searches will give you a good feel for climate history, and put the current Al Gore claims in the right context.

The only downside is you will have to read, and learn to make your own opinion based on facts, rather than accept someone else's opinion.

Enjoy.

[WWhiskey]

ok forget the 31000 names on the list just focus on the 9000 phd's !
 how many phd's does algore have on his side?

[lazs2]

The scientists are not that smart.. but they are getting smarter.

The man made global warming thing has some downsides for grant money.. if you make too wild a claim for too soon.. you will be proven wrong most of the time and people will quit listening.. if you predict that say.. man made co2 is the cause and co2 goes up but temps do not.. you have some splaining to do!

Now they are starting to realize that and the new one is "earthquakes"  bush cut eathquake study funds in half.. two days latter a "study" by the worlds leading "experts" came out.. it said, essentially that.. "you are all gonna die!!!!"

in the next 50 years of course..  now.. the beauty of this is that.. we need to "fund" them to save our lives but...  no matter what happens.. they are covered.. right up until 49 years 364 days from now.. when they are dead or retired on your dime..

Global warming is trickier.. they can and do look like buffoons most of the time when they have to retract their wild eyed panic monger crap.

lazs

[gunnss]

More fuel for the fire....

It is kinda long but pulls a lot together with access to source material.

http://www.lavoisier.com.au/papers/Conf2007/Archibald2007.pdf

Regards,
Kevin

[DPQ5]

Ok this is for u vegetarians out there


Ok I eat cows, cows fart and release methane into the air furthuring globalwarming why you vegetarians eat plants which turn the methane into perfectly breathable oxygen.

Im eating the problem, your eating the salution.

Think about that

[Reschke]

I got tired of that crap and deleted every account I had there. Thank goodness I did that now I can have my life back.

[lazs2]

yep.. it depends on what scientist you listen to.

If you listen to the ones that have never even been outside to feel any kind of weather but can really soup up a computer...  we are doomed by C02.

If you listen to the ones with decades of real life climate experience who are out in the trenches.. we are going through another weather phase just like we always have and always will/

lazs

[wrag]

Here you go............

http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/06/08/climate-prediction-summary-notes-on-global-warming/

The part about Greenland is interesting and I SEEM to recall posting about it in the thread on Global Warming.

IMHO the Global Warming is just another attempt at controlling us through the use of FEAR!

I've also come to look at the housing crash as someone or a group of someones trying to make money and creating a situation that led to it.

The oil problem is another thing and I find myself wondering if the Bilderberger types aren't neck deep in the thing............... doing their best to create a situation where they will come on and OFFER to fix everything .... all we need to do is give them CONTROL of the world?