Avengers Squad Night AAR

[lutrel]

We had a great time this evening for our squad night.  We managed to take a GV Field and then,after porking the dar for the entire region, were able to run bomber missions against Field 22 for most of the night.  There was some good numbers on tonight with stiff opposition, which provided for some really good fights.  Thanks to all that showed up for our squad night, see y'all next Monday Night.  

[whiteman]

With the new large maps n the MA I'll be spending more time in here. Look forward to fighting with and aginst you guys.

Had my first flight tonight, shot down 3 b-26's, I love the proper matchups here. Later me and jenks had an auger contest

[texastc316]

was fun, I was able to make a few hops against ya ll. good stuff.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by whiteman
Later me and jenks had an auger contest

Jenks learned that technique from me.

- oldman

[Dichotomy]

yes but I perfected it

See yall Monday

[KONG1]

Wow, a whole squad managed to take a GV base, congrats.

Mass dweeberism is running rampant. I'm having a lot of fun, but that's only because the new mass influx of dweebs are mostly unskilled and rather ineffective.

I've seen a lot of capping and vulching (with no attempt at base taking) from both sides. Not a complaint. I haven't been vulched, and yes I know how to not be vulched. Question is: should the ack be raised to MA standards?

Bragging about porking the dar? Like that's difficult. I've been around long enough to not need dar to know what's going on, but are the new guys enjoying it? The dar could be turned off if that's how we want it, no reason for someone to waste the 15 minutes it takes for both sides to pork it. Question is: should we set the downtimes to MA standards?

I guess the crux of my point is this. If we're to have MA game play, set the arena to MA standards. HTC really does have the balance as-good-as-it-gets for that style of play, no need to second guess.

Word to the Avragers. Best bombing missions in the AvA were organized by TK and FiLTh. No lame dar porking, hiding and sneaking. The missions were planned and announced, attracting large crowds and generating furious action.

[storch]

I forgot about those filth or TK missions.  those were great.

[lutrel]

Hi Kong, nice to hear from you again buddy. but we've been over this.  

I realize you have probably not been in a bomber in years, due to all the dedication and patience involved, but the guys wanted to run bomber missions last night.  In order to even have a chance of gettin a bomber to a field, much less dropping some iron requires the dar be knocked out.  At least that way the 190's had to hunt for us to get the easy kills they so desired, instead of allowing them to pick us off on climb out from our fields.  

You see where we came from there was no such thing as inflight radar; it added to the realism of the sim as well as the amount of required team work.  But we are willing to adjust to the inflight radar here, by taking it out when the mission objective requires it.  You will notice on nights that we are only conducting fighter sweeps for fun, we will not mess with taking out the radar.

Bragging?  I was not bragging, I was giving an AAR and a big thank you to all that showed up and contributed to the good time we all shared last night.  You can't seem to admit your having fun with out at the same time running everyone involved into the mud.  So I will presume it's your nature to whine while having fun.  That's cool with us and we all know where each other stand.  Looking forward to seeing you next Monday Kong.  

[raptor33]

I want to be just like Kong when I grow up.
Now I will explain why I fly in a sim. Not because I feel like a man when I get a kill....not because I can brag when I get a kill, or a dar, or an ack. Not becuase it makes me feel good when I open my canopy and feel the wind in my face.....I fly in a sim with my buds so I can have a good time working with my buds to acheive a goal.
I enjoyed taking out dar not because it was a "toothpick" looking thing on my compouter screen. I enjoyed it because it was my assignment in a cooperating environment...and when we were done with the dar sweep, we had a feeling of accomplishment. Not because it was dar....but because it was part of the mission.
News flash Kong....we took out dar in one area ONLY. And in our support, we were the ONLY ONES in the arena when we did it.
So if you ask me, seems to me you decided to play your games in the area where dar was out already....seems it was your choice to fly there. I am starting to think that you actually like our game play....but still cant help whinning ....perhaps out of habit.
Like I said in an earlier post......the arena is big. Go fly anywhere else in the arena if you want the advantage of in flight dar....yeah...theres realism...in flight dar.
Oh yeah...and as for bragging? Glad to know you are "skilled" enough to fly without in flight dar. In WB's we all did it every night we flew. Glad you are "skilled" enough to avoid being vulched. Doesnt take rocket science to avoid being vulched. ANd as for vulching with no base taking? Not by the avengers Kong. We dont need easy kills to feel good. We were working on base taking last night...still learning so not with the greatest success...but we were base taking. you must have been so wrapped up avoiding being vulvhed that you didnt realize it.
Your name "Kong" can be deemed as intimidating....but your approach in this forum says otherwise.
Actually enjoyed flying with you last night Kong. Saw some pretty impressive stick work. You are good....no doubt here.....and with a little practice and dedication on my part, maybe I can acheive half of what you have....you have probably forgotten more about flying in a sim than I will ever know...really....not sarcastic...I am impressed. Just dont get why you feel the need to come on here and attempt to insult the Avengers...unsuccessfully perhaps, but the attempt was there. No harm done however....there were many "Kongs" in WB's.....so we got your number.
Cya Monday Kong
Raptor 33

[KONG1]

Originally posted by raptor33
I am a dweeb.

Let me get this straight. You guys killed the dar in an empty arena. That's funny.

(1)Just so I'm not misunderstood. I'm not dragging you through the mud. You announced you will play in the mud and I am pointing out that indeed you are.

(2)I'm not complaining, I'm having fun. It's kinda like if you walked around picking your noses and I pointed it out. I wouldn't be complaining I would just be illuminating the fact in hopes that at some point you would develop enough self esteem to quit.

(3)You are correct that I don't fly bombers, I choose to pursue activities that require dedication and patience to get good at. Bombing is way to easy, laser guns, arcade bombsite, but to each his own.

(4)You guys missed the point of the post, please reread or if necessary I'll be glad to simplify, just ask.

(5)I'm not telling you how to fly and your not breaking any rules. Thing is, I'm not breaking any either.

See you guys up and don't eat the boogers.

[humble]

Actually the Dar isnt that far off. As far back as the BoB fighters were vectored to bomber streams. You could just as easily have a voice saying "enemy formation, 5,16 kp6, angels 23, estimated numbers 12+".

Realize the real radar gave you altitude and numbers estimate as well at least some of the time. Now going beyond that I think kong has some valid points....

1) I agree we have to mcuh fighting "in the ack" on both sides. Frankc popped both my cannon (205) one run...so I was buzzing around in ack trying to get enough pings in to scrounge up a 2nd kill and RTB. I must have flown in the field and town ack for 15 min with all kinds of hits and plane all torn up...but no damage. I wont vulch and i wont chase a cripple down to the field but I found my self getting drawn in to furballs down in the ack area as well. I'd like to see ack at double MA standards...

you want to capture a field...well bomb the ack down:D

2) From a limited perspective (only 2 squad nights and the "sweep") I'd say you guys are far below AH standards for ops planning as a squad. I didnt see anything near a true squad mission either night and not much if any disipline or teamwork during the sweep night. The 71st as a general rule doesnt do "missions"...but when we feel like it 5 or 6 of us can roll 4 or 5 bases in the MA vs much larger numbers. With the numbers last night you guys should have had no problem rolling A-22. I'll give you a "what if" op for last night as an example...based on 9 guys up.

Bomber force is 3 x b-26 formations with 3 x 38 [coming over water] (hvy){bombs only no rockets}. Diversion force is 2 x spit 9 from A-4 and 1 M-3 snuck to near town...

You run the 26's in at 15k in tight formation...38s fly at 22k behind the buffs...only engage as buffs are targeted from rear or verticals...let the buffs deal with fly by B&Z...the spits are to fly a hook and "attack" town...role is to draw fighter in...obviously based on A4 being capped might be tough..no mutual support...if one is fighting other tries to run on out. goal is to move fight to a-22...spits are sacrificial...not if/how many they kill but what they tie up...

your rarely going to have a coordinated defense. Some guys will got for DAR bar over water...others will go for spits...others will look for easy pickings at A4. B-26s at that alt are fast well armed and tough to bring down. The 38's make it doubly tough. If the spitties can each tie up 2-3 you've got roughly 5 or 6 N of A-22 chasing them...a few (or more) camping A4. Assuming you get 6 buffs to target you can get alot of town down. U should have 1 or 2 38's (anyone who goes down ups from A4 in 3's one each way on runway and one from hanger if opposed...otherwise roll on death).

Once town is down then evan a single 38 can keep field tied up while troops roll...if you need to killing VH with 38 is pretty easy as well....

I'm glad you guys are here and I think you'll progress quickly...but work on your ops. As it is your really all cannon fodder...not do to skillset but mutual support issues. you may well be a squad...but I dont see you flying as one yet.

[lutrel]

That's a fair enough observation Snap, remember we are very new to this flight sim and we are still spending a lot of time getting all our pilots up and running in here.  We are learning as we go, the same way all of you guys had to do it.  Stick time is the only way we are going to get better at what we do in here; we still have a few guys that are not even with us yet on from the move over.  Give us some time guys, we will become good adversaries for you.  By no means are we flying at this time to "win" or kick anyones butt; but rather to learn the ropes in the new sim.  The detailed op's and mission planning will come later; we perfer to keep the cart behind the horse.

About the no inflight radar we mentioned, where we came from, we had to call out radar vectors to the guys inflight when ever we passed through the tower.  If the threat was big enough, we would take turns radioing GCI to the pilots in our country.  Not nocking how the radar is in here, but it was just much more realistic and required real team work to make things happen with out inflight radar.

[raptor33]

Originally posted by KONG1
Let me get this straight. You guys killed the dar in an empty arena. That's funny.

(1)Just so I'm not misunderstood. I'm not dragging you through the mud. You announced you will play in the mud and I am pointing out that indeed you are.

(2)I'm not complaining, I'm having fun. It's kinda like if you walked around picking your noses and I pointed it out. I wouldn't be complaining I would just be illuminating the fact in hopes that at some point you would develop enough self esteem to quit.

(3)You are correct that I don't fly bombers, I choose to pursue activities that require dedication and patience to get good at. Bombing is way to easy, laser guns, arcade bombsite, but to each his own.

(4)You guys missed the point of the post, please reread or if necessary I'll be glad to simplify, just ask.

(5)I'm not telling you how to fly and your not breaking any rules. Thing is, I'm not breaking any either.

See you guys up and don't eat the boogers.

Think of how you just agreed with my point Kong....we killed the dar with out anyone in the arena. SO perhaps you now see my point. We did it as part of a mission...whether there were 100 people or 0 people.....it was part of the mission. It was not a waste of 15 minutes...it was my assignment...it was part of the mission. Needed? Hell no. But then again flying around in a fighter and killing pretty colored planes on my screen is not needed either....but it is fun. Being part of a mission is fun Kong...not needed...just fun.
No point was missed by your post, and actually, some of the criticism was taken as constructive. Afterall, we are still learning. We did not think you were dragging us through the mud. If we thought you were, we would not have responded. However, perhaps you should re-read your post, or maybe I can simplify it for you. Much of it sounded like whining....with emphasis on SOUNDED LIKE.
By the way Kong...I respect you...I made that clear.....I just like to have a good debate once in a while....I have found I have abetter shot at winning on the BB than I have in the arena.....
Final word...at least for now....In WB's Avengers were one of the best, if not the best. In AH, we have a long way to go. From a comparison standpoint, the level of skill in AH is so far above that in WB's, you can not even use the two sims in the same sentence without looking silly. This being said, with the guidence of our CO, Lutrell, coupled with the constant but sincere (and appreciated) constructive criticism of many of you guys, The AVengers will become worthy opponents in time. The ribbing on this BB by me is all in fun. Kong, Storch, and even Trukill.....it is guys like you that take the enjoyment level to another tier...and for me, it is appreciated.
Raptor 33

[humble]

Originally posted by lutrel
That's a fair enough observation Snap, remember we are very new to this flight sim and we are still spending a lot of time getting all our pilots up and running in here.  We are learning as we go, the same way all of you guys had to do it.  Stick time is the only way we are going to get better at what we do in here; we still have a few guys that are not even with us yet on from the move over.  Give us some time guys, we will become good adversaries for you.  By no means are we flying at this time to "win" or kick anyones butt; but rather to learn the ropes in the new sim.  The detailed op's and mission planning will come later; we perfer to keep the cart behind the horse.

About the no inflight radar we mentioned, where we came from, we had to call out radar vectors to the guys inflight when ever we passed through the tower.  If the threat was big enough, we would take turns radioing GCI to the pilots in our country.  Not nocking how the radar is in here, but it was just much more realistic and required real team work to make things happen with out inflight radar.

I understand what your going thru, my comment is ment as observational not derogatory. Skillset will improve over time, ops planning is something you can do now. Buffs have a huge advantage in AH...up them with some fighter cover in tight formation and its not easy to stop. Given a reasonable balance in numbers you guys can apply more force at any point. Now for now you dont match up well as a fighter adversary (again from what I've seen)...but if you put it in a mission context it makes your job easier.

From a fighter perspective I didnt see any real winging or commonality in plane type or tactics. Again as an example I'd have been flying 2 sets of 4, one in 38's the other in spitIX's with the 38's over the IX's. The IX's get em turning and the 38 work the verticals. If you encounter higher cons the IX's climb up behind the 38's and the 38s engage and if needed eggress under the IX's to then zoom back up as the IX's look to pick the cons off the ropes...

Again i'm working under your flying as a squad.

Again these are just suggestions/examples.

[bkwolf]

Buffs have a huge advantage in AH..

Ahh.I disagree here.As a buff pilot I know it should take more that a single 109 to bring down one, let alone all three bombers.After the first few days of getting hammered by just one fighter I said we cant up buffs in here without escorts,the buff are way to weak.It would seem buff tough is way low IMO. One plane on a six attack take out all three,while smoking!!?c'mon, Just my 2 cents