What is a Militia?

[Toad]

It's a hand-held shotgun; it shoots 2 3/4" or 3" .410 shotshells. It's perfectly legal.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by lazs2

Unlike you and arlo (and existing precedent) ..  I don't think that they will say that "the People" means the state or that the state means the people.   I don't think they will use the useless newspeak term "collective right" since it is "meaningless."

I don't think they are quite ready yet to turn the constitution into toilet paper and get "people" to upset...  

Since you're fixated on "my opinion", as well (though you don't seem particularly focused on what I post):

The SC serving it's intended function doesn't "turn the Constitution into toilet paper" (even if they fail to interpret it the way you want them to*).

Again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_the_People

"People of the United States"

The phrase "People of the United States" has been construed synonymously with "citizens",[4] but has also been construed as "all under the sovereign jurisdiction and authority of the United States."[5] The phrase has been construed as bearing witness to the fact that the Constitution emanated from the people and was not the act of sovereign and independent States,[6] and that it was made for, and is binding only in, the United States of America.[7] Thus, this language implies that the power and authority of the federal government of the United States does not come from the various states, or even from the peoples of the various states, but rather from the greater entity identified as the people of the United States of America.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[4] ^ See Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. (19 How.) 393 (1857) (stating that the Preamble protected only U.S. citizens, and did not give Dred Scott, a citizen of Missouri but not a U.S. citizen, the right to sue in federal court). But see id. at 581–82 (Curtis, J., dissenting) (arguing that the Preamble applies to the people of the states, and dictates that people born in any state are automatically U.S. citizens). Scott was superseded by the 13th Amendment and 14th Amendment.

[5] ^ Jacobson, 197 U.S. at 22.

[6] ^ McCulloch v. Maryland, 17 U.S. (4 Wheat.) 316, 403 (1819); Martin v. Hunter's Lessee, 14 U.S. (1 Wheat.) 304, 324 (1816); Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 U.S. (2 Dall.) 419, 471 (1793),

[7] ^ Downes v. Bidwell, 182 U.S. 244, 251 (1901); In re Ross, 140 U.S. 453, 464 (1891).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The formation of the Republic was deliberate. A representative Democracy. Not a state of individuals where each person was the law unto themselves.

*Laz, anyone can have an opinion. Even you. And I'm sure it's hard to overcome the conviction that yours is always superior to anyone else's ... even the Supreme Court should it not rule in favor of your percieved perfection.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Toad
Necessity? You question the necessity of having only citizens vote on issues that affect citizens?

That would be an obvious no if you read what I posted closely enough without reading into it. However, starting out misconstruing only to ....

Originally posted by Toad
Now, does it require a tattoo on the forehead? Nope. I think the elements of such a system already exist.

.... end up agreeing with my point is a minor "victory", I suppose. Many couldn't find where the road really lead to after such an immediate and radical departure from it to begin with.

Very good.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by AKIron
If that would favor the democrats instead of the republicans I'm sure that's exactly what the democrats would be pushing for.

Your finger, not mine. Nasty habit that. Doesn't seem to accomplish much.

[Bingolong]

Originally posted by Toad
It's a hand-held shotgun; it shoots 2 3/4" or 3" .410 shotshells. It's perfectly legal.

Hand-held hahaha good one, as opposed to foot held or mouth held? it's a pistol. It can shoot Casul ammo to I imagine.. if it didnt blow apart from the pressure.

So... did they have them in 1939? Does the US Military issue them in 1939 or after NFA in 1934? has nothing to do with Miller decision.

Still falls under the NFA as "any other weapon" and requires registration.
From what I can tell its for law enforcement or the military only?

There is however a 410 pistol from the time the Stevens 410 singleshot pistol outlawed in 1934.  then given amnesty in 1968 to get registered. Today the fine for owing one with no registration is $250,000 and/or 10 years in the pokey.


The judge is cool    I think someone else makes one similar and there are deringers.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Bingolong
Does the US Military issue them in 1939 or after NFA in 1934? has nothing to do with Miller decision.

Is it your position that Miller is somehow linked solely to weapons that were US military issue in 1939?

That wouldn't really surprise me coming from you.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Arlo
That would be an obvious no if you read what I posted closely enough without reading into it.

Nah, you state you're satisfied with your state's system, which does seem better than most.

However, in many if not most states, a driver's license alone will get you into the voter's booth one way or the other.

Twenty states do not require driver's license applicants to prove they are legally in the United States.
 
Clearly, there IS a need for proof of citizenship before voting and clearly there's no effective nationwide system in place.

Nor did you state that you agree with the need for such a nationwide system. You merely said the elements are pretty much in place. That's not the same thing at all.

And you DO question the necessity for such a nationwide system, it's priority, etc., etc..

What's the accomplishment desired? What's the neccessity? Where does one slot the priority for such a perceived crisis?

[Toad]

Originally posted by Bingolong
Still falls under the NFA as "any other weapon" and requires registration.
From what I can tell its for law enforcement or the military only?

 

Oh, btw, you are wrong in both instances here. It does NOT require registration as any other weapon. It's merely a revolver like any other.

Second, it is not LEO or military only. It is sold over the counter to the general public through the normal 4473 process and Taurus currently can't keep up with the demand.

Note it is a shotgun available with as short as a 3" barrel.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Toad
Nah, you state you're satisfied with your state's system, which does seem better than most.

However, in many if not most states, a driver's license alone will get you into the voter's booth one way or the other.

Twenty states do not require driver's license applicants to prove they are legally in the United States.
 
Clearly, there IS a need for proof of citizenship before voting and clearly there's no effective nationwide system in place.

Nor did you state that you agree with the need for such a nationwide system. You merely said the elements are pretty much in place. That's not the same thing at all.

And you DO question the necessity for such a nationwide system, it's priority, etc., etc..

While you're busy telling me what I said by reading into it what you want to see just ignore that what I really did was illustrate the lack of necessity of going to extremes (unless there really is some ulterior motive) when just making the system universal based on the Texas model would make more practical sense.

Lighten up, Francis.

You were just *this* close to avoiding going overboard.

[Toad]

Arlo, you remind me of Nash.

[Arlo]

Toad, I really don't care about your perceptional disability. And since that's all you can muster up to whimper back about, I'll reserve sympathy for those it manages to impress. I'm sure there's worse things you can whip yourself into a frenzy over.

[Bingolong]

Originally posted by Toad
Note it is a shotgun available with as short as a 3" barrel.

Naa its just a firearm. It's not considered a shotgun  Like I said they also have deringers .45/410

(d) Shotgun.:The term "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#TITLE%20II

[Toad]

I see. So, since the Miller gun was sawed off at both barrel and stock it was not a shoulder fired weapon either.

Thus it is just like your derringer?

[Toad]

Originally posted by Arlo
Toad, I really don't care about your perceptional disability.

How even more Nash-like.

That's it Arlo; of course! It's not what/how YOU write. It's the inability of nearly everyone else on the BBS to correctly understand what you wrote.

Couldn't be you; has to be the other guy.

[lazs2]

arlo..  the "people" is every citizen..   nothing you cited changes that... "collective right" means nothing.   It would have no meaning in any amendment that used the words "the people" except to mean the every citizen.

Other than that.. "collective right" is jibberish...  It can only mean every citizen.. not some sort of hive mentality.

bingie.. I think toad answered you.. the second does not mean nor did miller mean that only current arms used by the military or.. militia.. were protected..

As for the "judge" and the various shotgun revolvers and derringers.. they have rifling in the barrel so are not considered shotguns in any case.   In fact... you can buy shot loads for many popular caliber handguns including .22

lazs