This is gonna confuse Mr No Name

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by Frostbitee
With each and every response I read anger and racist comments from you Moot. I am not here to argue what he did is right. He did break the law by entering the US illegally. So his crime is to want a better life for himself. I cannot and nor can you speak as to why he had done that. We do not know the circumstances that exist in his life.

Your comment of not understanding what I meant about faith being argueable stems from your comment in a previous writing
"And the whole christian good sheperd slant is bogus. Not only is it not exclusive to christian livelihood, but it's not especialy religious, nor has he really forfeited further attempts at crossing over and spreading the message that wiping your wet behind with the law is well-looked upon.

Frostbitee, you're saying that some astronomical coincidence is tantamount to an extraordinary consequence of his will and nothing else, that without his good conscience in that situation the whole event would never have taken place, that anyone who wasn't there to do as much as he did (which is frankly nothing special) is less commendable for it, etc."

I shared my beliefs that Jesus did a kind thing for a young child in need. Is he wrong for breaking the law yes, I have stated that many times. Each and everyone on here breaks the law. Speeding, taking a pen from work, driving after a drink, etc. Does this make you a criminal? Is coming into America illegally a worse crime then what we as citizens do daily?

I believe you have to read what Moot actually said, rather than what you've read into it.

He stated he has first hand experience with Illegal aliens. So do I, for that matter.

He has worked his bellybutton off to use the legal means, that this guy Jesus bypassed.

    Now here's the clincher, Frostbitee...People do help others, in times of need. I've driven up on accidents' that have just happened, and I stopped to help, one time I needed to perform first aid. I've never went out of the way to use that to my advantage. Does Jesus deserve a Thank you? Yes, he does. Does he deserve to get a free ticket to the front of the INS line for a green card? No. He tried to cheat, and get around all of the others' that went the legal way first. If a bank robber calls' an ambulance for a pregnant woman during a bank holdup, He's still a bank robber. Same applies here.

And BTW...Illegal aliens' steal from both you and I(If you are a tax-paying citizen of the U.S.) every day. They draw off of all of our social systems' , In most of the cases without paying back into the tax base that supports it. That in no way can be equated with stealing a pen from work. Don't get started with Illegals' and a "drink after work," That was hell in another thread.

[moot]

I am angry of the state of things. I'm maybe a little angry that talking to you it's pretty certain that I have in front of me someone who wants to relativize (sp?) the sheer enormity of the illegal immigrant problem because "they are human too".   This is the same sort of non sequitur appeal to emotion that made "think of the children" and "for your own good" infamous.
If less people were as undiscriminating of right and wrong, had more integrity, there'd be less employers of illegals, less corrupt politicians in office, etc, and the problem wouldn't be what it is today.  It's because of people being as lax as you seem to be (as far as your arguments hint to) that things are as they are today.

I'm most likely less racist than you are, considering how mixed I am by birth, inherited culture, education.. Have you literaly grown up with jew, french, canadian, quebecan, german, british, spanish, portugese, greek, venezuelan, brazilian, japanese, chinese, and arab kids?  I did, and to take the last one as example, I probably know more about both sides (simplifying here) of the western-arab conflict in both an everyday and idealistic point of view than you do.  
I'm pretty sure I'm more qualified than you are in that respect.

So, to recap:  Like Frode said, Jesus was benevolent and especialy so given that he wasn't supposed to be where he was.. But he didn't forfeit his crossing over to the US, he'll get as many more attempts at it as he likes.
Nor does his benevolence in this case void the wrong of illegaly crossing over, or the consequent illegal residence.
I am angry, but what's wrong with that?  Would it be better to relativize rights and wrongs as you do, just to bias your argument for the benefit of some shmuck's little moment of good conscience?
Yes, stealing a pen or a yacht are both criminal acts, but obviously of different degrees.  Relativity strikes again.
Yes, coming to the US illegaly has at this point become a really stinky thing to do.  Weighing the good of his action out in the desert with that kid, but, in comparison, nullifying the wrong of his crossing over because "everyone does it" etc is an obvious bias on your part.  You can't pretend to be impartial or fair arguing those things.

[lazs2]

geeze frotbite.. it's about fairness...  it is immoral to not be fair.. to be an American is to give everyone the same opportunity.

You need to actually read what moot wrote and not just look for a way to justify your preconcieved notions that anyone who believes in fairness of opportunity is a bigot.

Try to see past the color and look at the fairness of the law.   why should some people be above the law or able to ignore it?  if you believe the law is wrong then say so but.. you seem to be saying that mexicans should have a pass but you are fine with keeping out other peoples since they don't make a stink about it and obey our laws.

lazs

[Frostbitee]

First off I am Jewish. Second off, you all have it wrong on what I believe and think. I am not going to argue about my feelings and beliefs. You can read into what I am saying as you wish.

Good Luck to you all

[moot]

You said stuff, then argued a "belief" excuse when it all fell short of making sense, then backpeddled all the way back to everything you said possibly meaning anything at all but especialy something inaccurate, and now it's tied up to your being jewish.. What does that have to do with anything?

Nothing, except maybe a real clue to your biased perspective, considering its consonance with that out of the blue accusation that I'm racist.

[lazs2]

frostbite.. what does your being jewish have to do with it and.... If we have what you believe and feel wrong then I would have to say that you have only yourself to blame.

You took on a stupid and illogical positon and you were called on it.. not that difficult to understand.

lazs

[Vipermann]

It's gonna be real bad when they report that the reason the lady lost control of her car was because she swerved to avoid the illegal running accross the road, who then went to look at the wreck and found his heart.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Frostbitee
First off I am Jewish.  

Doesn`t matter. We`re still not coming down on the price of citizenship.

[SD67]

Frostbite:
So you are Jewish... who gives a fat rats cloaca?
The issue is NOT race, it's whether a crime has been committed or not.
The fact that he did a good deed does and should not give him the right to unconditional citizenship. There are undoubtedly many more deserving folk who have fulfilled all the legal requirements to enter the U.S.A.
I say MORE deserving because this gentleman has already been caught in the commission of a serious crime .

[moot]

Yep, if nothing else it would make wetbacks more deserving than people like me who are ready and willing to serve in the army to earn their citizenship, and properly integrate into the country.

[lazs2]

yep moot...  see the other thread.. this "idealism" when it comes to criminals is sickening... pure crap.   Like welfare.. it doesn't take into account the misery it is causing and the crime and the fact that it is de facto slavery.

These "idealists" destroying... playing with peoples lives.. make me sick.

lazs

[Frostbitee]

Originally posted by moot
I am angry of the state of things. I'm maybe a little angry that talking to you it's pretty certain that I have in front of me someone who wants to relativize (sp?) the sheer enormity of the illegal immigrant problem because "they are human too".   This is the same sort of non sequitur appeal to emotion that made "think of the children" and "for your own good" infamous.
If less people were as undiscriminating of right and wrong, had more integrity, there'd be less employers of illegals, less corrupt politicians in office, etc, and the problem wouldn't be what it is today.  It's because of people being as lax as you seem to be (as far as your arguments hint to) that things are as they are today.

I'm most likely less racist than you are, considering how mixed I am by birth, inherited culture, education.. Have you literaly grown up with jew, french, canadian, quebecan, german, british, spanish, portugese, greek, venezuelan, brazilian, japanese, chinese, and arab kids?  I did, and to take the last one as example, I probably know more about both sides (simplifying here) of the western-arab conflict in both an everyday and idealistic point of view than you do.  
I'm pretty sure I'm more qualified than you are in that respect.

So, to recap:  Like Frode said, Jesus was benevolent and especialy so given that he wasn't supposed to be where he was.. But he didn't forfeit his crossing over to the US, he'll get as many more attempts at it as he likes.
Nor does his benevolence in this case void the wrong of illegaly crossing over, or the consequent illegal residence.
I am angry, but what's wrong with that?  Would it be better to relativize rights and wrongs as you do, just to bias your argument for the benefit of some shmuck's little moment of good conscience?
Yes, stealing a pen or a yacht are both criminal acts, but obviously of different degrees.  Relativity strikes again.
Yes, coming to the US illegaly has at this point become a really stinky thing to do.  Weighing the good of his action out in the desert with that kid, but, in comparison, nullifying the wrong of his crossing over because "everyone does it" etc is an obvious bias on your part.  You can't pretend to be impartial or fair arguing those things.

Does anyone actually read, I was merely commenting back to what moot has said in the shown posting. My being Jewish has nothing to do with this. He asked if I had literally grown up with Jews. I suggest you all read all the postings before you go off on your attacks at me.

[Frostbitee]

Amazes me that noone actually reads posts, I have stated over and over I do not agree with him entering the country illegally. I have only said I feel what he had done was a good thing. And I am told I am back peddling. Read the posts (all of them), no where have I once defending this man for entering illegally. No matter if he broke a law or not, he is human and chose to do a good thing. Because I believe he did a good thing, I am being bashed? What is the matter with you people. If you wonder why someone has posted something, how about reading previous posts to see why.

Frode to your quote:
I believe you have to read what Moot actually said, rather than what you've read into it.

He stated he has first hand experience with Illegal aliens. So do I, for that matter.

He has worked his bellybutton off to use the legal means, that this guy Jesus bypassed.

Now here's the clincher, Frostbitee...People do help others, in times of need. I've driven up on accidents' that have just happened, and I stopped to help, one time I needed to perform first aid. I've never went out of the way to use that to my advantage. Does Jesus deserve a Thank you? Yes, he does. Does he deserve to get a free ticket to the front of the INS line for a green card? No. He tried to cheat, and get around all of the others' that went the legal way first. If a bank robber calls' an ambulance for a pregnant woman during a bank holdup, He's still a bank robber. Same applies here.

And BTW...Illegal aliens' steal from both you and I(If you are a tax-paying citizen of the U.S.) every day. They draw off of all of our social systems' , In most of the cases without paying back into the tax base that supports it. That in no way can be equated with stealing a pen from work. Don't get started with Illegals' and a "drink after work," That was hell in another thread.

That is all I have been saying. He should not have broken the law but yes he does deserve a thank you. Reading all posts would have shown you that. How many times do I have to say, I do not agree with him entering illegally??

[SD67]

The way I read it he was asking if you'd grown up surrounded by a wide variety of races, not specifically singling out any particular one.
I think moot was trying to say he has been exposed to a variety of cultural values over his life, and can see both sides of the coin. I'm guessing that although he can SEE the other side, he does not necessarily relate to it.
Note he did not claim himself to be a member of any race, as race itself is not the issue.

[SD67]

Yes, he does deserve a thank you.
I'd be thanking him if it was my kid, and I'd even write him a reference for when he wants to enter the legal way.