Operation pliers - leaked CIA memo

[Viking]

Seems we are in agreement on this issue Holden.

[Brownshirt]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin

As for helping friendlies in other lands, (read supporting those in Venezuela who oppose Chavez) I would think that a certain level is acceptable and proper.  

Armed attack or assassination is obviously wrong, but helping candidates and parties in other lands is a reasonable arm of foreign policy.  It certainly happens in our counrty when foreign players contribute to or endorse certain candidates.

There's a thin line between supporting terrorism and supporting democracy.
USA and individual Americans have been merrily doing both in middle- and South America & Caribian, in the Middle-East and in the Ireland and to tell the truth I don't expect you to chance your manners (old dog etc...).
Just don't think your government is any better than in some third world banana republic. It really isn't a wonder there's a plenty of people out there hating your country... and for a good reason I might add.

[AKIron]

Guys, it's just the internet. You're already safe behind your computer screen, no need to hide behind yet another shade. Your opinions, rants, or ravings are taken even less seriously when it's obvious even you are ashamed of them.

[john9001]

Brownshirt, why don't you move to a third world banana republic and see what life is like in the real world.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Brownshirt
There's a thin line between supporting terrorism and supporting democracy.

yes there is.  The line between freedom and fear.

No wait... that is more like a chasm than a line

USA and individual Americans have been merrily doing both in middle- and South America & Caribian,

Don't know where the Caribian is...  unless you mean Caribbean.  And the USA can follow along with France, the UK, Holland, Spain, Germany, and more recently the late Soviet Union, and China.

Oh and Cuba in Africa, and where was Che killed... Bolivia?

in the Middle-East and in the Ireland and to tell the truth I don't expect you to chance your manners (old dog etc...).

I'll give you a 3 to 2 chance for your manners

Just don't think your government is any better than in some third world banana republic.

90% of foreign revenues for Venezuela are from oil, so you must not be including Venezuela as a banana republic.

It really isn't a wonder there's a plenty of people out there hating your country... and for a good reason I might add.

I imagine there are a significant number who hate you as well, shade.

[Yeager]

I hate him.  As for people that hate the county of my birth?  **** off and die comes to mind.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by john9001
i seems we have some Chavez supporters here, but i can't tell if they are really communists or if they just hate the USA.

it's funny how some people support a totalitarian dictator as long as he's a leftist.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
it's funny how some people support a totalitarian dictator as long as he's a leftist.

Couldn't possibly be that some prefer their country to exhibit the standards it demands of others. No matter who else is involved. Neh.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Arlo
Couldn't possibly be that some prefer their country to exhibit the standards it demands of others. No matter who else is involved. Neh.

some of chaves's biggest supporters here are leftys.  Compared to him Bush is a saint when it comes to policies reguarding the institution of personal freedoms.  These same people scream the loudest at EVERYTHING Bush does.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
So are you taking issue with the CIA meddling in Venezuela's affairs, or that they are just not doing it efficiently?

I'd say if you're bound and determined to do something, especially of questionable ethics, you damned well better do it efficiently. First step is keeping it off the gorram internet, eh?

[john9001]

plain talk arlo, do you support Chavez ?

yes or no?

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
some of chaves's biggest supporters here are leftys.  Compared to him Bush is a saint when it comes to policies reguarding the institution of personal freedoms.  These same people scream the loudest at EVERYTHING Bush does.

Hmmmm. I hear the loudest screaming from extremists. Doesn't matter what end and often erupts from alternating sides of their mouths.

I'll just hold onto the belief that a double standard is no standard at all and that one should exemplify what they demand of others. My `ol WWII-Korean war Army vet grandfather taught me that.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by john9001
plane talk arlo, do you support Chavez ?

yes or no?

I'm not Venezuelan, son. It's not up to me to support him or overthrow him. That would be an internal matter for the Venevuelan people. Until then and until that country goes through official channels to request U.S. taxpayer funded assistance from my country to assist in it's internal affairs, my opinion of him (which isn't much) is just so much fluff on an internet bulletin board. The C.I.A., regarding effective U.S. foreign policy, hasn't learned much from the Bay of Pigs. That's about as plain as it gets.

[john9001]

Originally posted by Arlo
I'm not Venezuelan, son.

how condencending of you, and you dodged the question as i thought you would......son.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
it's funny how some people support a totalitarian dictator as long as he's a leftist.

He is not a totalitarian dictator ... not yet anyways. He is a democratically elected president.