Author Topic: Best climbing performance (Read 1244 times)

SkyRock · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2007, 11:47:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by angelsandair
but remember to cut your throttle when you are turning

Not if you want to "use" your E!:aok

StuB · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2007, 09:03:55 PM »

Is your dad a noob as well?

What altitude are you two planning to be fighting at?

Quote

Originally posted by yankedudel
I guess I needed to clarify that. We are going to climb to a predetermined alt. then when we are both their merge head to head so no one starts with the advantage. What I am trying to do is go vertical after we pass, hope he doesnt see me and have the advantage when I am above him and he is looking for me so I can get a shot at him. I am a "NOOB" so I dont have all of the terminology down. I guess the best example would be an F4 phantom vs. Mig 17/19. No way the F4 could outturn the MIG so it would use its superior power to get into the vertical..............
I think I just answered my own question...I just need to use my E to my advantage....just thinking out loud.

LEADPIG · « **Reply #17 on:** December 11, 2007, 01:43:21 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by yankedudel
I guess I needed to clarify that. We are going to climb to a predetermined alt. then when we are both their merge head to head so no one starts with the advantage. What I am trying to do is go vertical after we pass, hope he doesnt see me and have the advantage when I am above him and he is looking for me so I can get a shot at him. I am a "NOOB" so I dont have all of the terminology down. I guess the best example would be an F4 phantom vs. Mig 17/19. No way the F4 could outturn the MIG so it would use its superior power to get into the vertical..............
I think I just answered my own question...I just need to use my E to my advantage....just thinking out loud.

After many MA engagements there is only one thing i can really tell you. Aircombat is like life, what you plan and what actually happens are two different things. Now it's good to have a plan, but have a backup if it doesn't go well. Because fighting against actual is very different than fighting the AI in Il-2. You can never count real people out.

One of the real nice fun challenges about this game.

yankedudel · « **Reply #18 on:** December 11, 2007, 07:49:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by StuB
Is your dad a noob as well?

Yeah, my old man is retired/moved away. He hasnt joined up yet but I figure when I show it to him over the Holidays he will join up. Something he and I can do even though he is 1000 miles away.

What altitude are you two planning to be fighting at?

I was thinking neutral head on merge at 10k.

yankedudel · « **Reply #19 on:** December 11, 2007, 07:52:16 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by LEADPIG
After many MA engagements there is only one thing i can really tell you. Aircombat is like life, what you plan and what actually happens are two different things.

Yeah, I know but it is like visions of sugar plums dancing in my head.....we merge.....he turns hard to come around on me but I zoomed vertical...where am I???? On his six blasting away!!!!!! MUAHAHAHA...MUAHAHAHA!!!!:t

Saxman · « **Reply #20 on:** December 11, 2007, 09:38:42 AM »

That would depend his his level of situational awareness. Going vertical is my favored first move after a merge as well, as it's more efficient than a break turn to reverse and it CAN work, especially against an inexperienced opponent who has difficulty keeping track of your position. However if he knows to pick up your position immediately on merge he'll spot your vertical maneuver and will respond accordingly.

He may immelmann on you to force a second merge while you're coming over the top, enter a climbing spiral to deny you position on his 6, split-S under you to extend out to where you can't drop into an immediate guns solution, etc, etc.

A dogfight is one long series of Move/Counter-move. NEVER count on your first maneuver being the only one you need because if you don't have a second, third, or fourth planned out you lose the initiative the moment your opponent defeats the first.

yankedudel · « **Reply #21 on:** December 11, 2007, 10:30:41 AM »

Can you actually plan a dogfight or is it just a product of experience reacting to what the other guy is doing? Knowing if he does 'x' I will do 'y'?

Saxman · « **Reply #22 on:** December 11, 2007, 11:39:20 AM »

That depends on you, and who you're flying against.

Generally it's not so much a matter of having the entire fight choreographed but knowing how to respond to the opponent's maneuver.

Example:

I'm in pursuit of an opponent, and he decides to try drawing me into a rolling scissors. If you spot it in time, you can either commit to it, or disengage. Once committed there's no breaking contact, which forces me to remain in the maneuver until one of us is dead. Alternately, and IMO the better option, is not to get suckered in. I may immelmann out, I'll lag pursuit and pull higher into the vertical before rolling. This gives me more separation to work with.

StuB · « **Reply #23 on:** December 11, 2007, 12:11:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by yankedudel
I was thinking neutral head on merge at 10k.

Ok, then you want to go and do some aircraft performance comparisons at:

http://www.gonzoville.com/charts/index.php

and do forum searches to get more detailed info, such as tips, tricks, things to look out for, etc...

If you are looking for great a plane to fight "upwards" in that also had good speed and acceleration, you might want to check out the Bf 109K4.

You can use it's sustained climbing ability to do a rope a dope manouver.

Angus · « **Reply #24 on:** December 11, 2007, 04:23:59 PM »

How do you intend to merge?
Are you climbing like side-to-side and the first to hit 10K is free to engage?

BTW, try the 109G-2 or perhaps the G-14 as well as the K-4.
AFAIK the 109G-2 in AHII climbs on pair or better than a Spitfire XIV. 5 mins to 20K.
Not so sure about 10K though.....maybe Spit 16? It is fast enough, and deadly nimble...

Widewing · « **Reply #25 on:** December 11, 2007, 05:32:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by yankedudel
Can you actually plan a dogfight or is it just a product of experience reacting to what the other guy is doing? Knowing if he does 'x' I will do 'y'?

There's an old military adage that says; "the first casualty of battle is the battle plan."

You can have a basic concept of how you would prefer to handle an engagement. However, you will invariably have to adapt to the situation that actually develops. The ability to adapt and improvise is essential to repeated success.

Never enter a fight with too much expectation as you'll be less able to adjust when circumstances change, and they WILL change.

My regards,

Widewing