Author Topic: "Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?  (Read 744 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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"Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?
« on: February 15, 2000, 11:36:00 AM »
Here's the link: http://www.furballmag.com/editorials/brian/farewellAW.asp

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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Rip1~Warbirds~)

"In training, upon being told it was time to
solo, the instructor said, “You tried to kill
me enough times, now try it with a check pilot.”"

Offline Westy

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"Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2000, 11:50:00 AM »
<zips lip>

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 02-15-2000).]

Offline Ripsnort

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"Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2000, 11:53:00 AM »
One excerpt from his editorial of AW of late:

"Landgrabbing and Alt Warrior are my two biggest gripes.  Now that
                            we have UberBuffs, I didn't even attack them unless I'm in an A8.
                            Screw it, I'm not going to virtual die just to try to stop landgrabbing.
                            Even in an A8, if it's a good buff pilot, I wouldn't stand a chance one on
                            one. In addition to that, the RR community has decided that 30K is
                            mainstream now.  Even six months ago, you'd run into the occasional
                            30k plane, but now, 50% of the individual fighters you'll find are above
                            25k.  This is absurd.  If we were paying by the hour (not that I want it), I
                            bet they wouldn't do that. A lot of this has to do with the overrated
                            points system.  If they're going to keep points, take it a step further.
                            Other factors should be:  How many friendlies close by?  How many
                            enemies?  Did I kill someone that had an advantage on me, or did I
                            jump someone?"

------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Rip1~Warbirds~)

"In training, upon being told it was time to
solo, the instructor said, “You tried to kill
me enough times, now try it with a check pilot.”"

Offline Vermillion

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"Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2000, 12:50:00 PM »
I can see this guys points to a certain degree, but to be honest only the community can influence some gameplay factors.

And as anyone from Relaxed Realism (RR) Air Warrior can tell you, the community there consists of types like "gEnERaL PimPBoy" spewing out crap about how good he is.

Lets look at his points:

1.) Alt Warrior: Realistically, Kesmai can only regulate this by taking away their most prized possesion, the relaxed realism. Hell, if a plane can pull continuous 9G turns without black/red out, no accelerated stalls, and can do 700 IAS in a dive and pull 9 G's without ripping the wings off, you better believe I am gonna park my butt at my service ceiling.

2.)Landgrabbing/Gangbanging: Only the community can effect this. It is natural to want to "win", especially among the more emotionally immature. So if its easy to switch sides, and go to the team with the biggest numbers, and there is no "ill effect" from your fellow players, its gonna happen.

Now his other points are quite valid and I agree with them. And realize that I am even one of the "oldtimers" that he speaks of with access to the semi-private NewBigWeek NG. But the editorial has some very valid gripes.

1.) Bad connects: At Gamestorm I average 600-700ms and that is pretty typical. And I have seen some nights during scenario's where 1200 ms (thats 1.2 seconds) is good.

2.) Lack of Developement: Enough said. I personally put AW:Vietnam (and the promised AirWarrior IV after that)in the same category as I do Warbirds 3.0. Sure its coming some day, but it may be a long wait.

I guess my ramblings actually have a point. A company can only do so much, alot of the "game" is up to the players and the community they form.

However both sides have to keep up their "side" of things for a game like this to be successful.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

Offline Ripsnort

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"Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2000, 01:07:00 PM »
I thought it was interesting, lets see, real life was...land grabbing, and to live longer, altitude...so, what's his beef regarding this portion of the editorial?

------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Rip1~Warbirds~)

"In training, upon being told it was time to
solo, the instructor said, “You tried to kill
me enough times, now try it with a check pilot.”"

Offline Fishu

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"Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2000, 02:39:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
I thought it was interesting, lets see, real life was...land grabbing, and to live longer, altitude...so, what's his beef regarding this portion of the editorial?


<continues the list of real life>...long boring flights, easier to surprise due to lack of situational awarness due to reason mentioned before, one live, no icon to help find targets 30k above against masking terrain (500ft is not the right altitude to be masked by terrain, its possible higher also if high plane is enough high), limited supply, higher risk of occuring technical problems at height, full fuel loads...

Offline FBM Matt

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"Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2000, 07:45:00 PM »
Hey all:

How about taking this to the Furball Magazine Forum next time?  >G<  But thanks for the feedback regardless.  I was surprised when I stumbled across this link today while visiting this forum.

Brian "Omni" Rinehart, the author of the editorial, would know better than I (although I echo many of his same words--I cancelled my account in August of last year), but I think he's bored with the game.  And he has valid reasons.

Kesmai doesn't exactly have the best support team out there (the best support team by far is the community itself--which is somewhat exclusive and can be found in New Bigweek--location available upon request only).  But Bigweek, as I said, is prett exclusive.  They don't take to RR guys very well.  I had a hell of a time fitting in there, and I'm still not sure I have yet.  

But anyhow, Kesmai can be a bite when it comes to support.  Its standoffish attitude doesn't exactly help much.  Ahh yes, who knows when Air Warrior Vietnam will be available, and it's nearly impossible to make a guess about Air Warrior IV.  (I would guess about two years at least).

2 years.... wow.  Air Warrior 3 is running on three-year-old technology.  By the end of those two years, it will be five years old.  The same old game get old after a while.

What about those uberplanes?  Well, I would guess that they're buffhunting.  At least they fly somewhat steadily and one doesn't have to worry about a warping bomber popping up all over the place.  Unless you encounter the occasional (occasional?) dogfighting B-17 or B25.  My old CO used to bring up a full B25, which he called his "Spitchell" (due to its **outstanding** turning and dogfighting skills) for dogfights--we used to shoot people down in those!  And just the other day a friend of mine told me about how he outturned a 109 in a Gooney!  C'mon--a damn gooney.  Granted, a 109 isn't the best turning aircraft, but surely it can outturn a Bf-109.

But maybe those fighters are way up high for a different reason other than hunting for bombers--maybe it's just too hard to find a decent fight without warpers!  What fun is it if the guy in your sites is really on your 6 and you get red-screened?

What fun is it to *always* fight at that altitude?  There's got to be some variety.

Connections are definitely problems.  For too long Gamestorm/Kesmai has blamed the problems on users.  To a certain degree this is true, but I blame 75% of the problem on Gamestorm/Kesmai.  

A friend of mine brought up an interesting point.  As a *former* (yes many of my friends have left the game) Air Warrior pilot, he had experienced the good times and the bad--and the bad times finally got to him.  Connections were horrible, and he hung up his headset.  Anyway, consider Air Warrior: Vietnam/Jet Warrior (this is something else that bothers me--what is the official name anyhow?) for a second.  Massively multiplayer like Air Warrior III.  Same basic style and servers.  Bad connections are a given.  Jets?  At 500 knots?  Missiles?  Now add in the warp-factor, which will undoubtedly be an aspect of any of Kesmai's massively multiplayer simulations.  Ya look in your rear-view mirror, see a jet outside of guns or missile range.  But in his view, you're dead meat.  And you will be.  The missiles and the high speed will add to the horrible effects of the warping.

Back to AW3.  What kind of updates have we had?  No new aircraft--this was discussed a while back, but I don't think it happened.  Same boring old arena setup.  (big eto changed it a bit, but it was extremely large--making fights hard to come by).  

More than anything, the fun factor made the game what it is/was.  But it has disappeared for many.  Warping is not fun.  Patrolling the skies at 40k gets boring--pilots want to find quick fights easily.

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Matt Arens
Editor, Furball Magazine furballmag.com
awpilot@aol.com

Offline Duckwing6

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"Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2000, 02:10:00 AM »
Fishu if you fly at 500ft AGL and the guy that's looking for you at 25K + then he'll have a hell of a hard time finding you LOL he'll not even get a dot maybe.

Offline maik

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"Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2000, 05:48:00 AM »
Well Said Matt,

I wonder if Kesmai is reconsidering their server-structure for the new sims.

Just a short addiction. If Kesmai is not blaming the Gamers they are usually blame the Hardware-drivers.

Maik

[This message has been edited by maik (edited 02-16-2000).]

Offline Kieren

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"Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2000, 08:05:00 AM »
Matt-

I don't know if you were offended by this thread, or looking for traffic on your site  , but I'm sure no one here meant any offense. Many here are AW vets, and understand the issue totally.

I think the discussion here was about the frustration of your fellow pilot and how it relates to the development of AH.  My hope is that HTC will benefit from the experience of the other sims and avoid many of the pitfalls.  

Offline FBM Matt

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"Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2000, 12:13:00 PM »
I wasn't offended.  And I wasn't looking for traffic either.  My point was, it's nice to get feedback about what we're doing over there--but I wouldn't have known about it if I hadn't stopped by.

Anyhow, I was just supplementing Brian's editorial and the comments here.

And I have played Aces High--it looks promising--and I hope that it won't encounter the same problems.



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Matt Arens
Editor, Furball Magazine furballmag.com
awpilot@aol.com

FBM_Omni

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"Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2000, 12:27:00 PM »
I'm in San Fran at a conference, so this will be kinda short.  Better reply once I get back home.

Westy, don't zip your lips...  Your comments on NBW are almost always valid...  I agree with almost everything you say there.

True, to a point the community *should* control who flies how...  but, it's not happening, and Kesmai *should* look into ways of solving it...  one way is changing the maps, but that's not the only way.  For instance, they have many arena settings that they can change almost instantaneously...  Play with them, see what happens.  There's other ways, but, they wouldn't listen to me in NBW, they won't listen to me here.

Ripsnort, I do plan on trying AH, as well as FA(prolly much like AW in terms of problems I noted) and WB for a brief time.  Maybe others.  Be easy on the new guy when I do show  

Ok, unless ya'll can give me great XML lectures, I'm going to need to scat.  >S< all, good hunting

Omni

Offline Westy

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"Land grabbing" and "Alt Warrior":sound familiar?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2000, 07:50:00 AM »
 Never fear Omni, I rarely hold back in my
posts but I didn't have anything else more to say than what you see now except I trimmed out a sentence that refelcted what I think would be my lack of popularity right now with the folks at KEsmai.
 But here folks don't want to hear about discontent with AW or WB's or FA.
 So I keep my opinions to NewBigWeek where I know the support and development people read them (and recieve due flamage back I might add   ).
 
 -Westy