Russian bombers 'buzzed' US aircraft carrier

[ZetaNine]

Originally posted by straffo
Where are you deployed currently ?

the home office.

[ROX]

Originally posted by Boroda

Needless to say that your navy has a great history of completely failing air defense when under real attack and shooting down harmless passenger airliners just because someone got scared to death and crapped his pants. Should I elaborate?

He MUST be referring to the Soviet downing of defenceless KAL airliner back in 1983, correct?

[Chairboy]

I think Boroda honestly believes it was some sort of spy plane, and that all the families of the deceased were invented.  He's an example of his upbringing, and Occam's Razor is hard to apply when it's going against beliefs adopted so early in life.

[moot]

Simplest explanation is that Soviet press release said the truth, so it must be true.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Boroda
Nice. Guncams and radio-talks only prove that US planes shot down two Soviet planes in international waters.

MiGs got intercepted by Panthers and "blue" side attacked first, it's quite obvious, Soviet pilots couldn't even return fire - they they were not allowed to use their weapons against Americans.

Now maybe you'll tell me an American POV on a Sukhaya Rechka airfield attack? Maybe it will be like "evil Soviet airfield attacked harmless US planes and got bombed and strafed in self-defense"?

Soviet side never mentioned both encounters in official propaganda, all sources on Korean war and following conflicts in Far East was de-classified in early 90s, when it wasn't used for propaganda purposes for obvious reasons.

You also missed the altitude difference in the fight. Kinda hard for the Navy Panthers to jump bogeys that have a 35k advantage. You also fail to realize that the radio transcripts will show everything from the beginning to the end of the entire engagement.

Not everything my country has done has been on the *up and up* and not everything your country has done has been on the *up and up*.

[Fishu]

Argentinian Super Etendar Touch and Go on Ronald Reagan Carrier, photo by U.S Navy



I love Boroda and yanks... the two sides makes up for amusing read.

[Angus]

Borat, Borod, sorry Borod-a...here:
"Needless to say that your navy has a great history of completely failing air defense when under real attack and shooting down harmless passenger airliners just because someone got scared to death and crapped his pants. Should I elaborate?"


I am a bit late for this one, and I did see you getting spanked promptly by Widewing.
However, I must ask you about which failing air defence you refer to, especially if it is anything but Pearl Harbour, as well as adding to the line of those who mentioned the Korean airliner.
USSR crapped their panths and shot down a 747 on a border area, yet they were not up to the job to properly spot and/or intercept a dude-controlled C172 that crept over some 2000 + (?) miles of USSR/Warshaw pact airspace,- DURING the cold war.
Did he get a German medal? No.
Where did he train his cross country ride? Iceland (the Only place in W-Europe where you have proper peace in a lot of airspace to do such stuff I guess).
Did you hear about this in Russian media? (you tell me...)
Did the USSR medal bearing low-passers have guns trained on them?
maybe.......
Did the USSR buzz....Iceland? Unheard off in the time of the USMC and USN up here, but the Bear interceptions/escorts were by the hundreds over the years.....- however you can do it now
Would there be interceptions or guns on you? .... Maybe

[Chairboy]

I think it was maybe only 200 miles, but still....  The citizens of Soviet Union would have reported him, I'm sure, because they certainly saw him (a civilian aircraft?  Obviously unauthorized!) but unfortunately the copper for the phone lines had been stripped a couple years earlier to fulfill an urgent request for metal by the government.  

[KgB]

Originally posted by Chairboy
KgB: A slight logical flaw in your reasoning, the people who would have made the decision to allow the Cessna in are the ones who got sacked.  If this had been a plot by Gorbachev to get rid of those people, why would they participate?  

Can we expect further insight of this caliber in the future?

Nope,no flaws in my reasoning.Let me rephrase,Gorbachev did  everything to destroy USSR.As if he did it purpose.
Keeping in mind that majority of politburo was corrupted,i wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow we find out that Gorbachev did it with help from west.
You wanna tell me that Americans are not bright enough to pull that off?

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by C(Sea)Bass

I hate to bust some of you guys bubbles, but, China is NOT communist. They are no more socialized than Sweden, or Germany.

Might want to explain that to the ruling Chinese Communist Party.  The principle political idealogy is a blend of Marxist-Leninism and Maoism.  Later, Deng Xiaoping came up with the "Deng Xiaoping Theory" which consists of the primary principles of:

- Marxism and Leninism
- Party Loyalty
- Subjection to leadership -
- Thoughts of Mao Zedong

His theory is now the main political theory governing the Chinese Communist Party as his "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics" is the main theory behind China's economy.


ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by KgB
Nope,no flaws in my reasoning.Let me rephrase,Gorbachev did  everything to destroy USSR.As if he did it purpose.
Keeping in mind that majority of politburo was corrupted,i wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow we find out that Gorbachev did it with help from west.
You wanna tell me that Americans are not bright enough to pull that off?

I would have thought the Old Guard that was bent on destroying whatever freedoms the people had, destroying any political dissent and/or opposition, running the country into bankruptcy and the ruling/governing party is corrupt would have been the cause of the USSR's demise.  Not some guy that saw the writing on the wall and realized the old way was the wrong way and tried to change things.

ack-ack

[C(Sea)Bass]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Might want to explain that to the ruling Chinese Communist Party.  The principle political idealogy is a blend of Marxist-Leninism and Maoism.  Later, Deng Xiaoping came up with the "Deng Xiaoping Theory" which consists of the primary principles of:

- Marxism and Leninism
- Party Loyalty
- Subjection to leadership -
- Thoughts of Mao Zedong

His theory is now the main political theory governing the Chinese Communist Party as his "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics" is the main theory behind China's economy.


ack-ack

China is socialist and is ruled by a communist party, they are not communist though. in communism there are no private buisinesses, everything is owned by the government. China has private buisinesses, just look at all the ones American companies have been investing in over the last few years.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Elfie
You also missed the altitude difference in the fight. Kinda hard for the Navy Panthers to jump bogeys that have a 35k advantage. You also fail to realize that the radio transcripts will show everything from the beginning to the end of the entire engagement.

Not everything my country has done has been on the *up and up* and not everything your country has done has been on the *up and up*.

Daaaamn.

According to Soviet side MiGs took off to intercept targets approaching Soviet airspace, the fight began with US planes getting on MiGs 6, then the radio communications were lost. One MiG ditched due to an engine failure and didn't participate in a fight, so Red side was outnumbered, one MiG returned to base, two were shot down by Americans. Some Russian-language web-sites say the carrier was called Princeton, not Oriskani.

After studying American records from Korean war - I think I'll believe Red side. And Soviet pilots were not allowed to use weapons in international airspace.

Still no comments on Sukhaya Rechka airfield attack.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Boroda
Nice. Guncams and radio-talks only prove that US planes shot down two Soviet planes in international waters.

MiGs got intercepted by Panthers and "blue" side attacked first, it's quite obvious, Soviet pilots couldn't even return fire - they they were not allowed to use their weapons against Americans.

Now maybe you'll tell me an American POV on a Sukhaya Rechka airfield attack? Maybe it will be like "evil Soviet airfield attacked harmless US planes and got bombed and strafed in self-defense"?

Soviet side never mentioned both encounters in official propaganda, all sources on Korean war and following conflicts in Far East was de-classified in early 90s, when it wasn't used for propaganda purposes for obvious reasons.

First, the MiGs were at 50,000 feet, confirmed by radar, the same general altitude they flew at in Korea. Why? Because they were relatively safe from attack up that high.

Now, with the MiGs at 50k, how would the Panthers attack them when its service ceiling was just 42,800 feet?

Read the after action reports.

As to your claim the Soviets "were not allowed to use their weapons against Americans", and "couldn't return fire". That's simply balderdash.

Explain the 23mm damage to Williams F9F? I scanned in a photo provided by Williams to Adam Makos.



So far, you offer nothing to support your ridiculous claim. This is simply because you cannot do so. However, don't let that stop you from blathering away. We're all interested in how far you'll dig that hole you're in.

My regards,

Widewing

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Widewing


Explain the 23mm damage to Williams F9F? I scanned in a photo provided by Williams to Adam Makos.

(Image removed from quote.)

So far, you offer nothing to support your ridiculous claim. This is

Birdstrike!

-Sik