Author Topic: Gas Prices  (Read 2299 times)

Offline oakranger

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Gas Prices
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2008, 10:54:07 AM »
Yoy know that E85 really dosent do much as far as cost.  All e85 really dose is put out less emisions (sp) and decreases your MPH 5-10 miles.  so you be spending more time at the gas station with e85 than 87, 89, or 100 octane
Oaktree

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Offline Banzzai

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« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2008, 10:57:29 AM »
man i love it whe americans start complaining about
petrol prices

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

boy have you lot got it easy

Offline trax1

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Gas Prices
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2008, 11:09:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Banzzai
man i love it whe americans start complaining about
petrol prices

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

boy have you lot got it easy
Well you know what, your use to paying those prices for your petrol, were not.  Imagine that if over the period of a year your prices almost tripled and then stayed that way and never went back down, now you don't think you might complain a little?

Plus Europe is small compared to the U.S, we have to drive farther, and your car makers have been making your cars have great gas millage.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Offline smokey23

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« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2008, 11:18:14 AM »
I converted my old 69 international to run on used cooking oil we have enough fast food joints around here i can drive forever for nothin they give me the stuff. It smells like french fries while youre cruisin around and makes ya wanna stop at the local sonic burger for a fry fix. but it works so ya wont hear me complaining.:aok

Offline trax1

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« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2008, 11:22:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by smokey23
I converted my old 69 international to run on used cooking oil we have enough fast food joints around here i can drive forever for nothin they give me the stuff. It smells like french fries while youre cruisin around and makes ya wanna stop at the local sonic burger for a fry fix. but it works so ya wont hear me complaining.:aok
What did it cost you to convert your diesel engine to run on cooking oil?
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Offline john9001

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« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2008, 11:37:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by smokey23
I converted my old 69 international to run on used cooking oil we have enough fast food joints around here i can drive forever for nothin they give me the stuff. It smells like french fries while youre cruisin around and makes ya wanna stop at the local sonic burger for a fry fix. but it works so ya wont hear me complaining.:aok


i call balderdash, you need to treat used cooking oil before you can burn it in your engine.

(clip)
Transesterification For Wasted Vegetable Oil (WVO)
Vegetable Oil: Diesel has a chain of 11-13 carbons, and new vegetable oil has a chain of about 18--but wasted vegetable oil-- which has been heated--has chains of up to 32 carbons. To burn in an engine, the chain needs to be broken down to be similar in length to diesel
Lye: (Sodium Hydroxide ((NaOH)-- or potassium hydroxide also works) is the catalyst for transesterification. It works by "cracking" the vegetable oil molecules, splitting the triglycerides from the hydrocarbons and shortening the carbon chain. (3.5g or .35% is the standard amount of lye necessary to create a reaction, when using fresh vegetable oil, so you can figure that used vegetable oil will always use more.)

Methanol: The amount of methanol needed will also vary, but the ideal is to use the least amount of methanol necessary in order to get the highest yield. The yield is related to completion; so if you get a 90% yield that means that 90% of the fatty acids have been eliminated from the vegetable oil. We have found that the best is to use 15% to 20% methanol, based upon the total weight of your batch of oil.
*it is best to use dry gas methanol (we found methanol at an automotive racing store)

A hydrometer can also be used to check the amount of completion according to density

Vegetable Oil has a specific density of .910
Biodiesel has a specific density of .850-.870

and you will still need a heated fuel tank and some conversions have to use diesel to start and warn up the engine and to purge the fuel lines of veggy oil before shut down.

Offline trax1

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« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2008, 11:41:43 AM »
Yeah, bio-diesel engines have small gas tanks that hold about 1/2 - 1 gallon of regular diesel fuel to heat up the engine before you switch to the bio-diesel fuel.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Tigger29

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« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2008, 12:11:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CAP1
i diagnose and repair cars for a living...and have been arguing about this for a looong time......everyone's convinced ethenol is the cure-all.....and it's not.....it costs more to produce, it produces less power, thus requiring more fuel into the engine to accomplish what 87 octane gas does....it's an all around really bad idea.......but then who am i to say, right?:D


I diagnose and repair cars for a living as well.  I am an ASE L1 certified master technician with 15 years of experience.

You are both correct and incorrect.  In the long run, yes ethanol is more expensive.. both to use and to produce.  The decrease per gallon cost is offset by the loss of fuel economy.

There are two reasons I like to use it.  For one, my truck absolutely loves the stuff.. runs great.. has more power.. smoother.  Plus "bragging rights" to having something different.

Two... It supports local farmers more so than middle eastern oil.  This is not for a political discussion at this time though, and I don't use it for political reasons.  All I know is I like it.. my truck likes it.. and even if it costs a bit more, I'll still continue to use it.

Now as far as producing less power.. yes and no.  While gallon per gallon, ethanol has less energy than gasoline (thus making it less efficient), but in theory a vehicle can crank out more power using it... but you have to use MORE of it.  This is why using E85 typically results in a 10 to 15.. to 20% decrease in economy.

To classify it as an "all around really bad idea"... well this is more opinion than fact.  As technology evolves and we're able to produce E85 more efficiently and from more products than CORN... well heck look at South America.. they are using Soy.. then there's switchblade alcohol.  If they can essentially use WEEDS that nobody is going to in their right minds consume or use for anything else than throwing away... then how is this an overall bad idea?

The problem is that this technology will never get developed if nobody supports it.  Our current methods of using Corn may be inefficient, but it is a "stepping stone" for our country.  The USA is driven by business.  A business is not going to develop a product (unless mandated by the government, and we all know how well that works out) that has little or no demand.  If people keep discounting E85 as a viable solution, then no one will invest in it and it will die away.

If we DO show this to be a profitable, viable option, they will explore further technologies, and eventually will be using weeds and garbage to fuel our cars.  Now.. is THAT a bad idea?

Offline Jebus

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« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2008, 12:16:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by trax1
Well here in IL it's been around $3 a gallon for 87 octane, for some reason IL usually has the highest gas prices in the nation.  I've heard that in Saudi Arabia they pay around 20 cents U.S to completely fill there tanks.


That is because we pay both Federal and state taxs on our gas.  I live in Cook County and they even have a county tax :mad:

Offline AWMac

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« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2008, 12:47:36 PM »
4 ft of garden hose. $0.00
2 each  empty 5gal fuel cans. $0.00
2 times a week, late at night. $0.00
1 huge bottle of mouth wash.  Wal-Mart generic  $1.17

I haven't done the math yet but I'm sure it's cheaper.

:D

Mac

Offline john9001

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« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2008, 12:55:50 PM »
come on mac, get one of them squeeze bulb syphon things, no more gas taste.

Offline EagleDNY

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« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2008, 01:43:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CAP1
i diagnose and repair cars for a living...and have been arguing about this for a looong time......everyone's convinced ethenol is the cure-all.....and it's not.....it costs more to produce, it produces less power, thus requiring more fuel into the engine to accomplish what 87 octane gas does....it's an all around really bad idea.......but then who am i to say, right?:D


Let the American Farmer and the market work on Ethanol for a while.  I don't doubt that the production efficiency will increase as they figure new methods of production.  Whether it comes from switchgrass, or genetically engineered corn, or raw sugar - I'd rather give the money to the farmers than to the oil dictators of the middle east and south america.  

The really bad idea is to leave ourselves at the mercy of an illegal price-fixing oil cartel (OPEC).

EagleDNY
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Offline trax1

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« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2008, 01:47:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by EagleDNY
The really bad idea is to leave ourselves at the mercy of an illegal price-fixing oil cartel (OPEC).

EagleDNY
$.02
Exactly, this way we can produce are own energy fuel, and it's a renewable source, which means we'll never run out of it, and we don't have to be at the mercy of OPEC.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Offline EagleDNY

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« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2008, 01:47:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
4 ft of garden hose. $0.00
2 each  empty 5gal fuel cans. $0.00
2 times a week, late at night. $0.00
1 huge bottle of mouth wash.  Wal-Mart generic  $1.17

I haven't done the math yet but I'm sure it's cheaper.

:D

Mac


Getting 2 Oz of 12Ga double-barrelled ROCK SALT picked out of your buttocks in the emergency room....  $6,410.15

;)

Offline BlauK

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Gas Prices
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2008, 01:49:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BlauK
Some 1,39 euros / litre (95 oct) = 7,82 us$ / gallon...  you guys would be rioting with these prices, right? :D


LOL, still no-one else even over 6 $ / gallon

You lucky biatchees :cry


  BlauKreuz - Lentolaivue 34