Originally posted by angelsandair
We'll just say I'm in my Hurri 2c vs. an A6M5. We will go on a convergence and we end up at the deck neck and neck. We end up almost side by side scissoring back and forth. I always keep losing those kind of fights. Where its almost like a figure 8 between the 2 planes. My question is, on certain situations, do i need to cut my throttle? Or can i half it and bring my nose up when I'm doing the maneuver? It's really frustrating.
First, the guys have it right, doing the TA will help a lot but what you say above leads me to believe you may not have a solid understanding of the different aircraft strengths and weaknesses. You need to do some study if you're going to get the most from training.
In your example, a IIC vs Zeke, given two equally skilled pilots and a neutral start the IIC will lose unless the Zeke makes a mistake. Why? Simple, the Zeke can out turn the IIC and the IIC is too slow to run away.
The IIC has three advantages over the Zeke. Its guns, its toughness, and ability to dive so you want to use these. The Zeke's advantages are better turn rate, turn radius, slow speed handling and agility but don't forget he's made of paper mache' and has so-so guns. Sooooo, what does this tell you? You want to maximize your opportunity for any shot on him, even if it means exchanging forward quarter shots. That doesn't mean just put your lift vector on him and pull, that won't work, instead use smart tactics.
A smart Zeke will avoid your guns on the first merge and then use his turn superiority and agility to just plant himself behind your wingline. If you don't have altitude to dive away that leaves you with guns and toughness. Try to force the fight into a series of beak-to-beak passes which means either a vertical or two-circle fight giving you the opportunity for forward quarter, high deflection angle shots. He may get a few shots on you also but the odds in this fight favor the IIC. Of course you can't do this forever, the longer the fight lasts the smaller your odds get. Sooner or later he will have enough angles on you for a kill.
If you're the IIC you do not want to get in a straight turning fight (including scissors) with someone that can out turn you. If you're in a neutral start you need to keep your speed up and use the vertical, not choose a flat scissors. The vertical is the only way to "out turn" an aircraft that can turn better than you. Let's use an extreme example. Say the Zeke is flat turning on the deck while you go straight up. Roll so your lift vector is on him and as you come over the top (hit the flaps) continue your roll putting your lift vector just a bit (maybe one plane length) behind him (don't forget to hit flaps up on the way down). The Zeke can turn all he wants but your roll will negate it. You probably won't be able to drop directly on his six o'clock but then you have a good high deflection shot as you dive down and then go up again.
A more likely scenario is where you use repeating high and low yo-yo's while he just keeps pulling hard for your six. Your high yo-yo's are negating the angles he's gaining and your low yo-yo's are keeping your E up for the next high yo-yo and giving you the opportunity for a shot as you cross his turn circle. You're using your strength (guns) against his weakness (rice paper construction). Of course, if the Zeke is smart he'll be using the vertical also. If he does then "Jam" him (pass as close as possible) as you go up. Chances are he'll maneuver to avoid a HO which gives you angles, do a quick vertical reversal after passing him (i.e., don't extend in the vertical otherwise he'll just meet you 180 out as the situation reverses itself) and you'll probably have a shot as he pulls up on the bottom of his loop.
Let's say you don't have a choice. You're on the deck, the Zeke jumps you and you reverse into him starting a flat scissors. If you're fast (well above corner velocity which is about 180 for the IIC) and he starts turning into you for the scissors cut the throttle and honk on a 6 G turn into him. Slap the throttle back to full +WEP as you get close to corner velocity. Are you losing E? Sure you are but it's better to trade E for angles and neutralize him than to let him turn inside you and end up behind your wingline. Remember, your best turn rate and smallest turn radius is at corner velocity.
Once you're in the flat scissors stay at full power and get your nose up above his (i.e., a higher angle relative to the deck). You will now be losing speed quicly but trading it for altitude separation. You want to work above and behind the Zeke. Converting more of your speed to a bit of altitude reduces your down range travel and gets you slow enough to get your flaps down. Use rudder (a lot) to help your reversals, keep your nose up and look for an opportunity for a good crossing shot. What's a good crossing shot? If you're sure you can get your nose on him that's a good crossing shot. Most likely you'll survive a couple of crossing shots from him as the Hurri is strong and the Zeke's guns are pretty weak. He will most likely not survive one good crossing shot from you but if you commit to a crossing shot by lowering your nose and miss, you're dead meat since you'll be out front as soon as he reverses again. I'll repeat one more time, given equal skills the Zeke will most likely win this battle. He knows to get slow and get his flaps out, he knows to work above and behind you and he knows you can't out run or out turn him. He needs to make a mistake (such as stay too fast, pull a little too hard and depart or commit to a bad crossing shot opportunity) if you're going to win.
This one is when you go on a convergence, and I've always observed that when you go on a convergence, if you dont pull up, the other guy will. Well there was a few times in the DA when i did that and the other guy didnt do it. I thought the fight was won so i went down using my E and the guy turned it around on me and blew my butt out of the sky. I tried the same thing with him but i let him go up first. I tried to simulate what he did but he didnt over shoot. He was right on.
Just a terminology thing but the term is "merge". If I understand your description you're falling for a trap. Most of the time you go vertical on the merge and the other guy doesn't he's dead but smart guys know a little trick. While you go up he doesn't turn level, he actually is turning nose low in an oblique turn. Not so nose-low as to significantly increase his speed and turn radius but probably 30 to 40 degrees below the horizon to maintain his speed near his corner velocity. What he's doing is maintaining his e while putting on his best turn turn rate.
As you reverse over the top he then times his pull into the vertical so as to pass you near 180 out. After the pass, he then immediately reverses and catches you coming back up because chances are you're well above corner velocity and have a very large turn radius. He's just turning inside you. The key here is energy control. More is not always better, in this case your excess speed is just causing a vertical overshoot so cut your throttle on the way down to maintain control of your E.
Also, the vertical merge is not limited to just the DA, it's situational dependant. Most aircraft that go vertical in the middle of a furball may as well just be yelling "come shoot my butt" (unless they have enough E to outzoom everyone) but there are plenty of opportunities to use this tactic in smaller engagements just as long as you have good SA. If you're in a 2v1 for instance (u being the 1) but each opponent extends to 5k after their pass then it's fine to use the vertical because you're really in two separate 1v1's (just work hard to make sure you know where the other bandit is and have a good feeling for when he'll be a threat and how long it'll take you to do your vertical move). On the other hand, if they stay close and work good section tactics (1 in, 2 off) then you need to extend and isolate the threat to one sector, not go vertical against 1 where you'll just be picked by 2.
