Author Topic: AR-15 owners Beware  (Read 1860 times)

Offline SteveBailey

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2008, 07:42:23 PM »
FWIW, the govt of Wisconsin is very anti-gun. There was a CCW law that passed easily in their congress but the Governor vetoed it. You would be hard pressed to find a more anti-gun place in the US... except maybe for Cook county IL.

Offline NUKE

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2008, 07:45:54 PM »
And that just amazes me, Steve. It seems like that state should be one of the least restrictive. I guess it only takes a few wackos to attain power and screw everything up for the normal people.

Offline Hornet33

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2008, 08:01:43 PM »
Guess I should go turn myself in. I've had my Bushmaster M4 go rock and roll on me before. Kinda happens when those things get hot and dirty from that many rounds being fired out of them. Rounds can start to cook off all on their own when the conditions are right.

His best defense is going to be challenging the prosecuter to take that gun to the range and make it happen again. 100 to 1 it doesn't and if the glove don't fit, you must acquit.
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Online Maverick

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2008, 10:26:11 PM »
Nased on the article there is no offense committed as charged. To have a transfer the weapon must have changed ownership. There is nothing in the film to confirm it had been sold. A malfunction is not a conversion of a weapon in violation of the weapons codes. A conversion is the willfull manipulation of the firearm to convert it to full auto. There is something very smelly in this case and I'm not sure what it is. I find it hard to believe that a jury would convict a person of something like this absent any intent or deliberate manipulation of the owner to modify the gun.

There is one thing to do in this case and that is to not loan out a semi auto weapon to anyone.
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Offline SteveBailey

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2008, 11:01:30 PM »
And that just amazes me, Steve. It seems like that state should be one of the least restrictive. I guess it only takes a few wackos to attain power and screw everything up for the normal people.

As an example of this Nuke, a full 78% of Wisconsin population wants CCW... yet the Governor still  vetoed it.  Their Capital, Madison, is overrun w/ nutjob Liberals who do things their way, regardless of how the general populace votes.

Offline Hoffman

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2008, 03:40:16 AM »
What the...  what kind of a genius considers an AR-15 an automatic weapon?

It will occasionally double-tap after extended use, from the heat, from wearing down the sear, too much lubricant, and from chucking a good several hundred or even a couple thousand rounds through it.  The M-16 series was designed from the start as fully automatic, and that flaw carries over slightly to the AR-15.  Anyone who knows anything about it knows the AR-15 isn't a full-auto gun.  One look at the sear from any half-decent forensics lab and you can tell that it just needs a part replaced, if the weapon is not intentionaly turned full auto than its not a machinegun.  Hell our AR-15 does that on occasion, and I'm damn sure the M4 I'm getting this summer will do that too after extended use.  Last time I checked and forgive me if my info is out of date me just being AROTC and all, but a machinegun was a fully-automatic belt-fed rifle usually mounted on a bipod or tripod man-portable or crew-served and vehicle mounted designed to engage and suppress infantry at ranges from point-blank to nearly 800+ meters depending on the gun in question and point/area targets.

I'm trying to figure out who rigged the jury?  'cause only a bunch of stoned teenagers or ultra-liberal moon-bats could convict a man off the evidence from that video.

Offline Strip

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2008, 06:32:51 AM »
A machine gun (or fully automatic weapon) by ATF standards is any gun that fires more than one bullet for every trigger pull.

I have had a Ruger 10-22 blast 20 rounds off due to a broke firing pin. Its a 1 in 100,000 chance but evidently its enough to get a conviction.

I shot IPSC and IDPA alot and have seen a handful of similar situations with pistols. My cousin, who was 8 at the time, used to limp wrist a Ruger target pistol. When the gun fired he would pull down to counter the recoil and pull the trigger again. The end result was a double tap so fast that you would swear it was a two round burst setup. We taught him the right way for safety and proper mechanics after that. However not knowing what was going on I can only imagine what it would look like to a federal screwball.

Makes me wonder what would happen if these people were to see anything like this.


BTW its not ATF (Alchohol, Tobacco and Firearms) anymore. The new designation is BATFE (Bureau of Alchohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Expolsives).

<S> Strip(er)

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2008, 07:35:37 AM »
How can a person get convicted due to a malfunction? If they can't prove any illegal modification that should never pass in court.
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Offline lazs2

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2008, 08:08:38 AM »
I am sure that an organization as dedicated to individual rights as the ACLU will be all over this case right?

I think you guys are just being paranoid... no one in black ninja outfits are coming in the middle of the night to take your guns unless you are a scum bag like this machine gun owner with a history of... of.. well..  liking guns and stuff.

lazs

Offline wrongwayric

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2008, 08:33:50 AM »
Well seems he got nailed on a legal technicality. Transfering a machine gun. First he should be smacked for loaning a gun to anyone! I own several and i do not loan them to anyone to shoot unless i'm standing right next to them! The fact that the gun malfunctioned and if they can back it up with actual manufactuers tests should clear him of the machine gun charge if he never modified it. Tranfering is what is getting him in trouble as you don't actually need to sell the gun to be guilty. If i hand you my pistol, i've just tranferred it to you, but i am still responsible for that pistol. Seems to me he made a mistake and the FEDS are making an example out of him. Then again if his buddy would have gone on a shooting spree what do you think would have happened? Plain and simple Don't Loan Guns!!

Offline bcadoo

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2008, 09:16:19 AM »
Should have been dissolved after Ruby Ridge.



I believe Ruby Ridge was the FBI
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Offline Jackal1

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2008, 09:25:37 AM »
I believe Ruby Ridge was the FBI

FBI and U.S. Marshals Service.
All  interchangable.
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Offline midnight Target

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2008, 10:06:55 AM »
Lou Dobbs covered the story today like a red blooded advocate of the NRA or something......

Anyway...something in the story just didnt seem right to me.  Like there was something not being mentioned....I dunno.

Should be intersting to find out how it turns out for the guy. 

Agree completely. Something is missing from this story.

Offline crockett

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2008, 10:52:02 AM »
It sounds like its all over and he pled to a charge.

I'm sure the feds came in and told him if he didn't plead guilty he would do the 10 years, as any defense lawyer worth his salt knows, if offered a plea in a federal charge, you better take it because if you turn it down they get pissed off and will get the conviction 99+% of the time.

shamus

That's the true tragedy of our justice system.. Regardless, of it's about guns or anything else. It's sad that our legal system has gotten to a point that "pleading guilty" is the best option to stay out of jail in a case that most likely no crime was committed.
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Offline Bodhi

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Re: AR-15 owners Beware
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2008, 12:00:49 PM »
How can a person get convicted due to a malfunction? If they can't prove any illegal modification that should never pass in court.

In the US today, it does not matter if you are guilty or innocent, if some judge feels like they want to push a message, and the feds involved decide they want to as well, then you are guilty in their eyes.  Add to that a jury that has no clue, and you get manufactured justice.
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