Paramilitary police tactics misfire again

[Chairboy]

The problem is that the SWAT-style methods are being applied widely and loosely.  When you have a hammer, your problems all begin to look like nails.  Instead of dealing w/ hostage situations the way the original SWATs in LA did, they're increasingly becoming The Standard Method for doing things.

Gubthr, if this was the first time this had happened, I'd say 'sure, point taken'.  But this isn't the first time SWAT methods or no-knocks have been used improperly with tragic results.  It's not even the tenth.

[LCCajun]

Being that I am a cop I take offense to some of the stuff said in this post. I do agree however that the PD should've did some investigation prior knocking the guys door down. I can't say that I blame the guy for shooting through the door. It is understandable being his house was just broken into 3 days prior, and it does sound like it was in self-defense. I wasn't there so I can't make a judgement just my opinion. I don't understand why they did a no-knock there is bound to be a reason again I wasn't there.
  Now for a couple of reasons why raids are done at night. Say u have a subject who is just nuts, and sees u coming. He is more then likely gonna run. If he has a gun would u want him running at night when there is nobody outside that could get shoot in a crossfire, or during the day when the streets are flooded with ppl and maybe even kids. Most police officers are trained in checking the background before shooting, however subject's are not. Another reason why raids are done at night is b/c most ppl are sleeping. So it gives u the surprise advantage. In my opinion police departments can still obtain the surprise advantage even if they do announce theirselves. That is what a flashbang is good for. Well, that is all I have I do wish that the public would realize that there are method's that police departments use. When one police department screws up it affects every police department in the nation.

P.S. everything I said is in my opinion. Thanks

[Elfie]

Well, that is all I have I do wish that the public would realize that there are method's that police departments use.

The no knock doesn't need to be one of them. If it was in my power to do so, I'd stop them all right now. To many innocent civilians and LEO's have died during no knocks. It's time to say enough is enough.

[lazs2]

airhead...  are you saying that pot heads are too dangerous to simply knock on their doors?   

If it were a meth dealer...  that would make a little more sense but.. why would you do the door smashing ninja thing in the wee hours when all the druggies are wide awake?   Noon would be a more quiet time for druggies..

but then.. people would see you and ninja outfits look kinda dumb in the daylight.


lazs

[Chairboy]

LCCajun: Of course knocking down the door in the middle of the night when the suspect is sleeping gives law enforcement an 'advantage'.  If you think the discussion here is based around us not understanding that the police can project power more effectively by treating citizens like insurgents, then you're missing the point pretty spectacularly.  The advantage, however, is tactical at best, not strategic.

When you treat your fellow Americans like enemy soldiers or terrorists, you detach yourself from your community.  If people start to think of police as faceless shock troops then the job of the officer becomes (increasingly) more soldier-like.  We aren't the enemy, but these tactics couldn't be more effective at creating enemies than if they were designed to.

We probably can't have Maybury, but we can do better than Baghdad.

[Jackal1]

or even the wrong address.

lazs

Jim`s Cycle, Axtel Texas.
He built the shop after he recovered from the gunshot wounds.
He took some down with him also.
Wrong address in the middle of the night.

[Airhead]

airhead...  are you saying that pot heads are too dangerous to simply knock on their doors?   
lazs

Lazs, we have between 5-6 killings every year in our pot fields up here. Today's grower isn't some back to the land hippie, he's a criminal who is usually armed and usually involved in other illegal activity, like Meth. Almost every raid on a commercial grow operation up here results in firearms being confenscated.

Not only would I be nervous knocking on their door, but there's some roads up here I wouldn't drive on in Sept.- October.

As far as serving warrants goes, the number one goal is to keep both the officers and the suspect from getting hurt, or worse. There are situations where a no knock service is best- I don't know why they determined to serve this perticular warrant like this- but there are situations where a no knock warrant keeps the risk to officers and suspects alike at a minimum.

Anyway my point was the gleefulness of some posters at the death of a cop. If I were so inclined I'd copy and paste some of the comments here, because obviously many of you didn't read them and instead focused on a straw man like the 4th amendment, but I consider many of the comments in this thread to be offensive and inappropiate.

Far be it from me to rail against board offensiveness, but I don't believe I've ever rejoiced in the death of a police officer, soldier or any other person who protects me. Some of you have and still others gave a taict approval to your remarks by their silence.

[GtoRA2]

I wonder how those countries in Europe do raids? Do they do no knocks like this?

Prolly don't need to though, especialy not for weed.... but hey this is the land of the free right?

[Jackal1]

but there's some roads up here I wouldn't drive on in Sept.- October. 

 

[Toad]

The 4th is a strawman? You're joking, right?

It's a keystone of the Bill of Rights, ranked 4th by the Founders in importance. They put it in there for a reason.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

From the description of the case so far, where is the probable cause? An informant whose information wasn't validated in the least? The story so far is there was no additional investigation, just the informant's unsubstantiated word. This case goes directly to the 4th.

Strawman indeed!

And people wonder how we let our rights erode so far and so fast.

[Fishu]

I wonder how those countries in Europe do raids? Do they do no knocks like this?

They knock the door and if nobody opens the door they leave.

[john9001]

Lazs, we have between 5-6 killings every year in our pot fields up here. Today's grower isn't some back to the land hippie, he's a criminal who is usually armed and usually involved in other illegal activity, like Meth. Almost every raid on a commercial grow operation up here results in firearms being confenscated.


and you know why that is, you make something illegal and the price goes up ,then the criminals move in for the profit.

does "prohibition" mean anything to you? Demon rum, reefer madness.

[bongaroo]

This story is so absurd that it could've been concieved by writers of The Onion.

Are police departments creating special sections of stupid cops to combat the type of stupid criminals like the ones shown on "World's Dumbest Criminals" ?

A hostage situation is the only scenario that would merrit any type of surprise tactical entry.

Let me write here the obvious explanation of why it was such a stupid, stupid thing for the police to do. The police are escalating a quiet situation into a life-and-death armed confrontation. Putting everybody at the scene in danger. The POLICE are doing this, we expect this from criminals, not police.

But it gets better. All this was over an aleged marijuana plant, true marijuana is the cause of much evil that plagues modern man. And that's why we are at war with these leafy evil doers. But it turns out that the plant, while we can't be completely sure where it's sympathies lie, was a noncombatant.

Imma take the drug war comment to another thread and see how it plays out but good call on its noncombatant status, I loled.

Shame that the war on drugs and no knock warrants have taken another life, why have we the people let this go on?  I can't believe this guy is getting charged with murder and the cop who killed that kid in NC while he came to answer the door is walking free?

[lazs2]

airhead..  I would say that there was a difference between raiding a home out in the sticks in a pot field and raiding a home in the city.

I still wonder what kind of druggies we are creating these days who sleep at night and get up bright and early.   I would say that noon would present a much better chance of catching them napping...  but then.. sunlight clashes with ninja outfits and.. home camcorders.

lazs

[Jackal1]

but then.. sunlight clashes with ninja outfits and.. home camcorders.

........and neighbors , passersby, etc. (Read that as witnesses)