Rating the Planes

[BnZ]

I believe it should in fact be possible to rate the value of a given plane in game objectively. The following is a first draft of a  grading system, weighted for MA conditions, that would be useful for objective ENY/perk value assignment purposes, when perfected.

1.Top speed@SL*3
2.Top speed@5K*3
3.Top speed@10K*2.5
4.Top speed@15K*1.5
5.Top speed @20K*1
6.Climb rate@SL*3
7.Climb rate@5K*3
8.Climb rate@10K*2.5
9.Climb rate@15K*1.5
10.Climb rate@20K*1
12. Max alt gained in zoom climb from 350mph start @5K,*4
13.-(minimum turn circle, no flaps*4)
14.-(minimum turn circle, 1 notch*4)
15.-(minimum turn circle, full flaps*4)
16.Roll rate 150mph, DPS
17.Roll rate 250mph, DPS
18.Roll rate 350mph, DPS
19.Roll rate 450mph, DPS
20.Lethality primary weapon 1 sec burst*2
21.Lethality secondary weapon 1 sec burst*2
22.Firing time primary weapon*4
23.Firing time secondary weapon*4
24.Ordinance load, lbs,*2
23.Flight time full internal*4
24.Flight time fulll internal+drops*4
25-(compression mach*4)

[cbizkit]

OK I'll play... add the following...

Carrier Capable
Durability - Damage
Durability - Structure Strength (parts peeling)
Flap Deployment Speeds
Parasitic Drag
Stability
Stall Recovery
Visibility
Weapon Ballistics
Zoom Climb

[humble]

The problem is that none of those elements taken individually truely matter. My understanding is that current ENY values are derived from usage and performance stats in game. Thats why planes like the hurricane 2C and tiffie are ENY 10 while apparently more uber planes like the 109K4 and 190D are higher. The ENY's are actually graded by the most objective standard available...actual game performance.

[EvlPrsn]

Zoom Climb

he already had that in there...

[cbizkit]

he already had that in there...

Your shoe is untied...

[BnZ]

OK I'll play... add the following...

Carrier Capable
Durability - Damage
Durability - Structure Strength (parts peeling)
Flap Deployment Speeds
Parasitic Drag
Stability
Stall Recovery
Visibility
Weapon Ballistics
Zoom Climb

Carrier capable-Very good. Must figure a  number to add to the scores of CV planes.

Durability-Problematic. Lots of planes have tough parts and weak parts. Need numbers I don't have here. As far as dive durability...maybe simplify by factoring in whatever is the redline IAS at 5K. Whether it is because you just lost parts or because you compressed.

Flap deployment-One could simply not factor in full flaps turn radius for planes that have abysmally low flaps out speeds, that would be the way to go here, I think. I'll add the caveat that since all our flaps are auto-retracting and won't be torn away, the ability to drop a notch or two well ABOVE no-flaps corner speed doesn't count for much, and shouldn't be a factor.

Parasitic drag-Parasite drag's importance is the effect on top speed and zoom climb, two already listed factors.

stability/stall recovery-Too subjective

visibility-Good, a possibility. A simple 4 increment rating system for front, back, and canopy visibility sounds workable.

ballistics-Good, this is no problem at all, muzzle velocity works here.

[BnZ]

Humble: An airplane's attributes, weighed together, doesn't matter?

 I don't think you could have come up with a more potent example of what is wrong with the "popularity contest" system if you tried than the one you gave. I mean, the Hurri2c gets high marks for turn radius and firepower, maybe people like to fly them in furballs alot, maybe they are annoying in the way they can swap ends and HO as a defense, but we are still talking about a 1941 plane that almost any other fighter can engage and disengage from practically at will, and usually out perform in climb and zoom too.

The fact that the Dora has relatively high 15 ENY, that 109K is 20, considering all the ways that the Kurt is superior, or that the entire 109 series, great airplanes, are all above 20, is an even better example of what I'm talking about.

The problem is that none of those elements taken individually truely matter. My understanding is that current ENY values are derived from usage and performance stats in game. Thats why planes like the hurricane 2C and tiffie are ENY 10 while apparently more uber planes like the 109K4 and 190D are higher. The ENY's are actually graded by the most objective standard available...actual game performance.

[5PointOh]

Your shoe is untied...

you have something in your teeth.

[cbizkit]

you have something in your teeth.

XYZ...

[Shuffler]

I'll rate any 38 as XXX.

[Motherland]

The fact that the Dora has relatively high 15 ENY, that 109K is 20, considering all the ways that the Kurt is superior, or that the entire 109 series, great airplanes, are all above 20, is an even better example of what I'm talking about.

I beleive there is something else at work here.

For example... the P47N has 5 eny and the 109K has 20.
With equal pilots, and at MA altitudes (heck, anything under 15k) the 109K will dominate the P47N. But... the P47N was a rare, latewar version of the Jug, and the 109 was one of the most prolific fighters of all time, and the K was fairly common by the end of the war... thus, the higher eny rating. I think HTC takes usage int account when rating planes.

[NoBaddy]

Geez, some folks just have waaaaay too much free time!!!

[SlapShot]

The only factors that I use to "rate" a plane are ... do I feel deadly in it and is it the right plane for the job.

[Anaxogoras]

The only factors that I use to "rate" a plane are ... do I feel deadly in it and is it the right plane for the job.

Let's stay on topic.

This thread is exactly the sort of discussion I wanted to start earlier.  BnZ has already set a higher standard by giving numerical values for different aspects of aircraft performance.  Those who wish to add-on or criticize should do so in the same terminology.

[Anaxogoras]

I beleive there is something else at work here.

For example... the P47N has 5 eny and the 109K has 20.
With equal pilots, and at MA altitudes (heck, anything under 15k) the 109K will dominate the P47N. But... the P47N was a rare, latewar version of the Jug, and the 109 was one of the most prolific fighters of all time, and the K was fairly common by the end of the war... thus, the higher eny rating. I think HTC takes usage int account when rating planes.

I don't quite agree with your conclusion.  Plenty of high use aircraft (during the war) also have low ENY values.  Let's admit that the P-47N ENY makes no friggin' sense.