Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists

[Hap]

accusations of screwing with interview material. 

Moot, tell me what you know about that.

[storch]

Aside ftom the fact that there are more "data points" than we could possibly list in this thread, and aside from the attempt to twist the hypothesis of the scientific method into some kind of "preconceived notion", the attempt to compare a dogma that is irrevocable no matter what the evidence to a process that requires evidence is the definition of silly.

work has prevented me from posting these last few days and have not been able to keep up with this thread I will attempt to read every post tomorrow. in the interim I would like to point out these observances and to state my opinion that until science can provide answers that aren't patronizing to or dismissive of people such as myself I will maintain my view that evolutionists are merely pagans with a wishful twist.

evolution has never been observed and there is zero evidence of evolution ever having occured in the fossil record.  there are no transitional fossils, not a shred of evidence, nothing, zip, goose eggs, nada.

the theory of evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics.

[SkyRock]

Irreversible complexity is a sound scientific theory that can answer questions logically stronger than evolution can. For instance consider the fact that there are no transitional fossil evidence, if there was the theory of evolution would be called something else. Just think how many failed mutated fossil species that should be around along with subsequent successful mutated fossil evidence. Any one ever hear of the bombardier beetle, though not. Within this creature are organs that contain chemicals that when combined produce an explosive reaction. It uses this as a defense by expelling them at such a precise manner that no harm is done to itself. If any of its mechanism did not function perfectly it would destroy itself and its prodigy. There have been attempts to explain this by evolutionary mutations but this creature raises so many questions and counter arguments to provoke Inquiry. Steins movie demonstrates the true institutional cult of evolution stifling honest investigation. Of course it considers a creator, so does our countries founding documents which would be listed under political science.




God made everything for its contemplated end, and also the wicked for the day of evil (proverbs16:4)

God may be the creator, but animals evolved on this planet!  You failed to mention the other 1000's of insect species that use chemical defense.   

[SkyRock]

evolution has never been observed

This statement is untrue, we actually manipulate evolution to create many things useful to humans on a daily basis.

and there is zero evidence of evolution ever having occured in the fossil record.  there are no transitional fossils, not a shred of evidence, nothing, zip, goose eggs, nada.

This is untrue as well.

the theory of evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics.

This is untrue and not applicable.

[thrila]

Looks like I'm going to join in this thread too. 

Storch, evolution has been observed, many times in fact.  I spent 13 weeks in a lab driving evolution in bacteria i  had isolated from households to acquire resistance to EDTA. 

I think myelo has a point too.  Evolution does not necessarily point to the origin of life, the scientific literature is  unclear how this occured.  I do find it difficult to understand why people find it so challenging to accept evolution.  Simplified, it is is simply the change in traits in a given population over time, due to selective pressures.

[Mini D]

Biologic evolution has nothing to do with the origins of life or the origins of the universe. It's really hard to take anything you say seriously when you can't even get the basic definitions correct.

Has nothing to do with it?

The weather is one of the more simplistic examples of cause and effect, yet we cannot understand it well enough to predict it. Something as complex as the origin of life is assumed and you're all gung ho on believing it. The only difference is that with the weather, the next day tells just how ignorant the scientists predicting it are in the grand scheme of things. With evolution, you simply assume the path and claim existance as proof you were right. It's like trying to say "I knew it was going to rain today" without having said it was going to rain the day before.

I find it difficult to believe that anyone versed in scientific method does not see the gaping holes in evolution. Anyone versed in natural order does not see the incredible leaps of logic based on nothing more than the belief that "it must have happend this way". Evolution is too much of an attempt to disprove the existance of god than it is to explain the existance of man to be considered sound science.

[Mini D]

BTW... I have no plans to see this movie. Those saying it's no different than a MM movie are correct. I wonder if they'll say the same thing after the next MM movie.

[SkyRock]

Evolution is too much of an attempt to disprove the existance of god than it is to explain the existance of man to be considered sound science.

Why even post this crap, evolution has absolutely nothing to do with proving/dis-proving God. 

[AKIron]

Wow, long memory of one instance from a 6am post, before i left for work.  Lemme know when you're ready to keep up with some Chi-square tests, I'll be glad to rip you up when that happens.  C U Next Tuesday!

Well, it wasn't all that long ago but I will admit to harboring a grudge against people who claim to be scientists spouting gloom and doom based on half assed science. Especially when those dire predictions have side effects that could affect me and my family in a very negative way. I belive we're seeing the beginning of those effects even now. Yeah, I take it kinda personally.

[lazs2]

wow.. now skyrock is saying that ID people or people who believe in god are jealous of smart people?   Bet you can't win Ben Steins money skyrock.

Look..  science is needed..  It can't create us and it can't give us immortality.    As was pointed out.. it can't even predict the weather or the climate of the globe a month from now.   Yet.. in it's arrogance.. well.. the arrogance of the worst of the scientists.. it tells us we must tithe to this god because we will be drown and burned by co2 in 50 years or that a great quake shall come upon us if we do not tithe to them.   

Science today has become just one more flim flam man out for it's share of your buck.

Like preachers.. the academics sit around and talk in their churches/classrooms doing no real work.   They must put the fear into us that only they can save us lest they have to get a real job or get paid what they are worth or..  god forbid.. compete.   

It is not science that is evil.. just as it is not god that is evil.. it is the aholes that pervert both that is evil

They can coexist.. if the big bang theory can be mentioned as to creation of the universe then god as the creator can be mentioned.   Only the scientists who pray to a jealous god could get upset.

lazs

[SkyRock]

wow.. now skyrock is saying that ID people or people who believe in god are jealous of smart people?   

lazs

No, I am saying YOU are jealous of smart people. 

[lazs2]

well... maybe.. point one out and I will see.   Moot is pretty smart.. Don't think I am jealous.   I admire a lot of smart people.. I often wonder how they can be so smart tho and not be able to function in some situations.   I have read the stuff you write and.. if you consider yourself to be smart then...

I can say with certainty that I am not jealous of smart people.

lazs

[Yknurd]

Staged crowds?  Deliberately misinterpreting science to push an agenda?  Nah.  Let's call a truce, you don't preach in my schools and I won't think in your church.

Good signature material for someone who is going to Hell.

[SkyRock]

 I have read the stuff you write and.. if you consider yourself to be smart then..

lazs

I don't have to consider myself smart, I am aware of my strengths and weaknesses.  

From what you have written, it reads that you seem threatened by scientists and knowledge.  Also, the fact that you pick and choose what knowledge to believe based on your political affiliation, tells much about your capacity to be "smart"!  

I remember you stating that it took no "skill" to play a video game, obviously you weren't smart enough to look up the defintion of skill.  Yet you kept coming back with "proof" that it took no skill, blatantly denying the definition of skill.  It is this type of behavior that would tell me that you are not the brightest bulb on the tree.

[myelo]

evolution has never been observed and there is zero evidence of evolution ever having occured in the fossil record.  there are no transitional fossils, not a shred of evidence, nothing, zip, goose eggs, nada.

Then you clearly don't understand the definition of evolution -- heritable changes within a population over time. More technically, it's a change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next. Some contemporary examples of evolution: antibiotic resistant bacteria, disease-resistant tomatoes, Jack Russell terriers.

Are you denying that bacteria have evolved resistance to antibiotics? Or is your position that an "intelligent designer" decided a few years ago to create a new methcillin-resistant staph that kills 100's of people a year?

As for your other points:

Well documented transitional fossils in evolution of the horse http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/horses/horse_evol.html.

Why evolution doesn't violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo/probability.html