Any Possibility of running a Normandy Scenario....

[Squire]

Well like I was trying to say, when you have a "BoB" scenario, it hardly just deals with one day. Its a campaign, that spans weeks. "Normandy" was not just about the 24 hrs of June 6th, any more than "Rangoon 42" is all about just 24 hrs in April 1942 in Burma. It represents weeks of fighting from the initial beachheads to Falaise Gap and the fall of Paris in August of 44. There was plenty of air combat, both fighter, and fighter-bomber, and medium bombers. More than Okinawa 1945, in which we had a full blown scenario for.

[K-KEN]

I think in my own little mind that the most difficult thing will be Frame 1 and getting folks involved on the AXIS side manning guns, limited GVs,  and a half dozen - 20 light fighters. The Fighters would be held until say T+45 and/or would be called in from a few sectors away to give it some sense of realism. C47s should be dropping decoys at Calais like the real invasion but maybe mix in a possible live capture as well to stimulate the AXIS defenses instead of just being a diversion.

In a way, Krusty has a point that some other venue may be better suited, however, like Squire, myself, and others have eluded, we can use the "fudge factor" to better suit our needs and still have some realism. I still like the idea of having Frame 1 being limited but having the possibility of the AXIS actually defending the invasion into the second frame. (Bonus Point time) IF the Allies fail to capture and overrun the landing zones, then the AXIS has bought themselves some extra defensive tools in subsequent frames. More Fighters, Tiger Tanks, Stukas, and maybe in frame 4 a whole horde of ME262's purchased with the Bonuses earned! 

Of course, if they fail to turn back the invasion, each subsequent frame offers only limited upgrades and tools to be determined by the CMs and Rules Committee.

I am a miserable pilot and GVer but to me this would offer everyone opportunities to use their strengths and weaknesses and maybe offer some instruction and training where folks don't tend to play online normally. I am a 9 year veteran AH noob  and still don't know it all.
While Frames 2-4 would be accelerated in time, the basis of this might be using the movie "The Longest Day" as a template of sorts.

I feel it was a major part of WWII and needs to be included in our selection. A Special Map for just this action would be required and if I had a clue I would offer my assistance in designing one, but like I said, I have no clue! A set of detailed instructions and support I would take a swing at it. I downloaded the terrain tools but am totally lost. Dare I mention Combat Tour? I am sure it would get it's use if that gets off the ground as well.

      

[angelsandair]

... with LVTs and all, it might be doable. Of course, might be hard to get folks interested in assaulting the beaches in LVTs with troops and supplies  Maybe design a 4 frame event where Frame 1 and possibly 2 are devoted strictly to landing craft and Carrier based planes, battleshps and destroyers. C47s launched from England too. Frame 3 could be a GV based invasion and taking over the skies, with Frame 4 being the beginning of bombing raids and fighter sweeps!    Just thinking out loud. It would give everyone opportunity to mix it up in buffs, LVTs, GVs and fighters all in one event.

Frame 1: The Landing: C47s, LVT2 and LVT4s. A series of maprooms on the beach requiring 100 troops or some odd number in order to make the objective. A row of shore batteries set up for defense and manable guns along with panzers, Jeeps, M16s etc.. Ships may not be shot, but LVTs are game! 

Frame 2: Establishing a Beachhead: All Maprooms captured, so to speak, all shore batteries dead, and a set amount of Vehicle and Base supplies landed on the beaches. Axis GVs would be disabled by some set of standards from Frame 1.

Frame 3: The Ground Invasion and gaining Air Supremacy......Basically, a GV invasion and Fighters on both sides.

Frame 4: Bombing Campaign and Fighter Sweeps. 

Just a thought...
 

Would there be a way to bring M8s and Shermans to shore?

[Krusty]

we can use the "fudge factor" to better suit our needs and still have some realism.

So, 100% fudge for the entire event, then?

Seems to me that any event that requires an entire team (axis) to man field gun positions only is doomed to failure. I don't mind the occasional GV-oriented scenario (S4th), but come on.

Be realistic.

This is a flight sim. Say it with me! Flight! Sim!

While giving downed pilots the option to man guns is a nice time-waster to keep them busy after they've lost the ability to participate, that doesn't mean it's worthy of anybody's full-time effort and energy, on the order of DGS or BOB'06.

[K-KEN]

Would there be a way to bring M8s and Shermans to shore?

Sure, assuming there is a capture point on Omaha, Juno, Sword, etc, they would be enabled maybe once an LVT4 landed successfully after the capture. Then you re-up in a Sherman or M8, or M3. (for Allied) Re-up may require some delay tactic by the CM team since it might be more fair that you had to land an LVT4 in order to re-up in a land-based GV. Say 15 mins or something. If you died on shore or coming ashore, then you would not be allowed to re-up a land-based GV. Good question, I might try and rough out a rules thingy and a really rough draft of the event.    A template of sorts.

[K-KEN]

So, 100% fudge for the entire event, then?

Seems to me that any event that requires an entire team (axis) to man field gun positions only is doomed to failure. I don't mind the occasional GV-oriented scenario (S4th), but come on.

Be realistic.

This is a flight sim. Say it with me! Flight! Sim!

While giving downed pilots the option to man guns is a nice time-waster to keep them busy after they've lost the ability to participate, that doesn't mean it's worthy of anybody's full-time effort and energy, on the order of DGS or BOB'06.

All Scenarios, and every one I ever flew in since Air Warrior have used "Fudge Factor" Krusty. Yer living up to your handle dood. Christ sakes man, nothing would ever please you. Maybe you should go engineer us the ability to generate planes, vehicles, and troops that we can control, but for now, be part of the solution. 

How many scenarios did we fly planes that were substituted models because we didn't have everything available...almost every scenario, if not every one. What about when PT boats rescue downed pilots, a particularly cool concept...but no one really had to suffer the ride home. What about night time, inclement weather, fog, rain, blizzards,10-50 foot waves in the freakin water, Hurricanes. I would have said Typhoons but that may have confused you. (I am speaking of the weather kind) We don't have or use those either! I recall in Stalin's 4th a "German F6F" was shooting me up in my IL2. I don't really want to debate you on this issue. That's not why I asked that this great Historical event be implemented. You are against it, don't sign up and don't walk on. Simple enough. It would be nicer if you supported it in some way and gave us constructive ideas but if your limited scope of thinking does not allow a little fudge (btw your 100% is not even close) then I am sorry for you.

EDIT: I seem to recall that the Normandy Invasion was not the end of the war. Was I wrong again? ..or did fighting continue...

[Widewing]

Normandy is quite doable, but it would be largely a GV fight. You would need air-spawns for the Allies, lots of fleets (sans the carriers). The BOB map would be a reasonable basis for a new map.

Limited vehicle types at virtually all land spawns. Paratroopers and infantry could be represented by Jeeps, M16s and M3s for the Allies, with Jeeps and the SdKfz for the Germans. Some spawns could offer M8s, some Ostwinds. Only a few for Shermans and Panzers. One spawn for Tigers east of Caen. Vehicle allocations should be proportional to what was really available. Reserve German Panzers and Tigers would not be available until the last frame.

P-38s over the landing beaches, P-47 and Tiffies attacking V-bases in the German rear, and patrolling spawns. B-26s hitting V-bases as well. A few German PT spawns would be needed, but limited PTs would be available. One or two German Destroyer fleets could be added.

German aircraft would be limited to bases two sectors away from the beaches and would not be able to launch until 1 hour after the scenario began. German beach defenses would be limited to V-bases with only Jeeps.  They would have the SdKfz available at Omaha beach as well.

My list of aircraft would be...

Allies:
B-17
B-24
B-26
Mosquito
SpitIX
SpitXVI
Typhoon
Tempest (limited)
P-47D-11
P-47D-25
P-51B
P-51D
P-38J
BostonIII

Germany:
Bf 109G-6
Bf 109G-14
Bf 110G-2
Fw 190A-5
Fw 190A-8
Fw 190F-8
Ju 87
Ju 88

Normandy could be done, but it would be complex and very time consuming for the design team to put together. Moreover, do not expect a balanced scenario, especially with regard to air power. Germany's strength will be on the ground and it must somehow survive the Allied air power to reach and contain the Allied invasion. Goals should not be pushing the Allies out of France. The goal should be to limit or contain the advance. To win, Germany must retain Caen and prevent the linking of Juno and Omaha beaches by keeping, holding or capturing the V-bases behind and between the beaches. Caen can be represented by several V-bases surrounding a city. All must be captured for the Allies to capture Caen, but only one of these V-base needs to be held by the Germans to thwart the Allies.

It could be a fun scenario if well designed.



My regards,

Widewing

[Roscoroo]

<S> Widewing . You've hit the beach pretty close to where I basically planned to go With the D-day Scenario.

"German beach defenses would be limited to V-bases with only Jeeps.  They would have the SdKfz available at Omaha beach as well"   
Here I'd like the Invasion wall a little hotter w/ sb's and pill box's . we can "what IF" it here instead of pulling the long iron back to some field .