Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?

[Canspec]

Or maybe we are witness to the initial stages of the transition of what is now virtual, into a collective reality.......

[Tumor]

I still argue this is a game - not a combat sim in the true sense.  I

Depends on how you "play" it.  There are those who treat it AH as a Sim (fewer all the time).  There are those who treat it as a game (who typically hate anything to do with a/the strategic aspect).  The Skyyrs of AH drive the gamey game the game nonsense. (Now come references to his statistical awesomeness, and Tridents and stuff).  To each his own, but IMO it's what driving this "game" into the dirt.  Over the years, there's been a noticeable departure from what would be considered traditional simulated ACM, to win-at-all-costs gamey tricks that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with ACM.  Still the best thing out there, but AH is in a sad state right now.  I hope a graphics update brings improvement because losing AH would be a great loss.. it might even be the nail in the coffin of WW2 Flight "Games".

[Tumor]

--

[Scca]

Because people are dumb, it's just like when tards drop thir gears in the middle of a dog fight. That always cracks me up..

Some do it all the time, and it works once in a while.  Hey, if it works to get the overshoot, then why not?  In RL, Hog pilots did it...  <shrug>

[-ammo-]

Depends on how you "play" it.  There are those who treat it AH as a Sim (fewer all the time).  There are those who treat it as a game (who typically hate anything to do with a/the strategic aspect).  The Skyyrs of AH drive the gamey game the game nonsense. (Now come references to his statistical awesomeness, and Tridents and stuff).  To each his own, but IMO it's what driving this "game" into the dirt.  Over the years, there's been a noticeable departure from what would be considered traditional simulated ACM, to win-at-all-costs gamey tricks that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with ACM.  Still the best thing out there, but AH is in a sad state right now.  I hope a graphics update brings improvement because losing AH would be a great loss.. it might even be the nail in the coffin of WW2 Flight "Games".

I would have agreed with you back in 2004; but believe (in line with your thoughts) AH has become more and more a game.  It's always been in the design with the base capture model - back then, many could have cared less and just wanted to dog fight back then - and some still do now.  But more and more I observe the "win the war at all costs" mentality more prevalent  (suicide jabos, bailing bomber pilots, etc).  Too each his/her own.  Everyone pays their $14.99.

[Skyyr]

Depends on how you "play" it.  There are those who treat it AH as a Sim (fewer all the time).  There are those who treat it as a game (who typically hate anything to do with a/the strategic aspect).  The Skyyrs of AH drive the gamey game the game nonsense. (Now come references to his statistical awesomeness, and Tridents and stuff).

The classic "you should play the way I play" argument. You clearly have no issue with "gamey" tactics (e.g. running WEP as much as possible), you just don't like "gamey" tactics that others use to beat you.

What's driving this game into the dirt is the "Get off my lawn!" community attitude (this thread is blatant evidence of that). Instead of either accepting the tactic (as it's clearly not cheating) or questioning why it would even result in an advantage (since the flight model is high fidelity), the community shows disdain, or otherwise insults, those who use the tactic, as if using game-based mechanical tactics to win makes one morally inferior.

Instead of upping your gameplay, you complain on the forums about realism... all while running your engine at WEP and rolling from a capped base, mashing your guns for 800yd shots. Your primary complaint isn't really about realism, it's about strategies which negate yours. Seems... ironic, coming from someone preaching strategy.

Also, focusing on skill is a strategy in and of itself.

[Tumor]

I would have agreed with you back in 2004; but believe (in line with your thoughts) AH has become more and more a game.

So very true.  That said, it's apparently right where HiTech wants it (touch of sarcasm there, but hey... he said "Game" way way back).

It's always been in the design with the base capture model - back then, many could have cared less and just wanted to dog fight back then - and some still do now.  But more and more I observe the "win the war at all costs" mentality more prevalent  (suicide jabos, bailing bomber pilots, etc).

Agreed in part.  The pure dogfighters have always been here... I am (was) referring to the tricksters. Those doing things that a) wouldn't even be possible in reality or b) no sane Fighter Pilot would do in the first place.  I mean, why the heck not just bring on the X-wings and Tie Fighters?  Mind you, I'm not advocating highly increased realism, that would be bad.   The disagree part is, I do not think we are suffering from "win at all costs" attitude (uhm, strategically).  Sure, they've always been here, always will be so long as being "killed" costs no more than a few minutes time.  However, I disagree that today's suicide jabos, bailing bombers etc have much to do with winning the war attitude.  Some folks get off on increasing their "social rectum" status.  They just do, and right now there is no happy medium.

[Zimme83]

As far as i have tested, cutting enginge has a significant affect on hammerheads and its a lot easier to kick the plane around with engine off. So my only conclusion is that it can give u an advantage to cut the engine if u are doing a hammerhead. (ie: roping someone)

[Ack-Ack]

As far as i have tested, cutting enginge has a significant affect on hammerheads and its a lot easier to kick the plane around with engine off. So my only conclusion is that it can give u an advantage to cut the engine if u are doing a hammerhead. (ie: roping someone)

go ahead and shut if off, all you're doing is just advertising an easy kill.

[DmonSlyr]

As far as i have tested, cutting enginge has a significant affect on hammerheads and its a lot easier to kick the plane around with engine off. So my only conclusion is that it can give u an advantage to cut the engine if u are doing a hammerhead. (ie: roping someone)

No, it will not make the plane flip over any faster, however it may help you to get the nose over during critical stalling speed as your plane floats downward from sky ( not a stalling position you'd like to be in) typically used in a case of emergency getting the nose over. During a real stall fight or rope, cutting the engine would not be the ideal decision when trying to roll over on them.

[Zimme83]

I don't use it in combat. I just tested it and there is no doubt that if u want to do a hammerhead its easier with engine off.
I mostly fly Brewsters and Brewsters dont rope anything...

[Skyyr]

During a real stall fight or rope, cutting the engine would not be the ideal decision when trying to roll over on them.

During a "real" stall fight in a real plane, you wouldn't need to do it whatsoever.

[Zimme83]

During a "real" stall fight in a real plane, you wouldn't need to do it whatsoever.

based on videos with u flying and my own testing i undestand why u do it, it maybe not so realistic but its not the point.

[DmonSlyr]

based on videos with u flying and my own testing i undestand why u do it, it maybe not so realistic but its not the point.

I don't use it in combat. I just tested it and there is no doubt that if u want to do a hammerhead its easier with engine off.
I mostly fly Brewsters and Brewsters dont rope anything...

Testing it by using a Brewster? That is not testing anything lol, the plane could roll over on almost any plane in general and how could you justify that not in combat? I understand that your perception of rolling might be helped by cutting the engine but doing that in one of the best turning planes is not a true measure of judgment. Not to mention you run a huge risk of not turning it back on in time or losing valuable E vs a good opponent. I don't mean any offense, but just because you tested it a few times in a Brewster and started playing a year or so ago, doesn't mean that your arguement stands. You simply won't gain any affectivness out of it vs a really good opponent. It's like pressing one more button when you didn't have to that could potentially put you at a disadvantage vs a good stick. Why would you do that? 

[Zimme83]

Lol. No i didnt use a Brewster for the test, i just said that in the MA im mostly flying the Brewster. And i have never turned engine off in a fight in the MA.

All i said was that if u want to do a hammerhead (turn plane around with rudder att stall speed and in a vertical climb) it is easier with engine off.