Combine best of old capture war and strategic war

[a4944]

I really like the war as a backdrop but not the money thing.  The first week was great.  The aircraft matchups excellent and fair making for great fights and exciting missions. 

This week the fights are much harder to find, air bases with aircraft much farther spread out, and the aircraft not well matched.  The time to a fight is very high.  Is next week going to be even worse as there will be even less money to spend?

I propose we do away with the multi-week war.  We could combine the best of the capture wars with the best of the strategic war.  One of the best things about the capture wars was the rolling plane sets and the great and even aircraft match-ups.  The best part of this strategic war are the objectives, missions, weather, etc.  Lets take the rolling plane set and put it against this strategic backdrop, picking maps appropriate for the plane set. 

The commanders could still have money to buy and place aircraft but they will have to pick from the era in the rolling plane set and they will have enough money to populate most if not all fields rather than having the majority of fields empty.  This will keep the match-ups balanced and the tactical options high as resources will be avaiable for the commanders.  Perhaps only allow at most one fighter type and one bomber type per field which could lead to varied fights in different areas of the maps. 

Everything is reset after each round so each commander has the same amount of money for each week keeping it somewhat balanced for all of the players. You could still accumulate results after multiple rounds (such as complete cycle through the rolling plane set) but have each round start equal and with enough money to populate the fields. 

I think this change is fairly minor but would make for a better experience for the players.  I think most are looking for good fair fights and the current system has the potential to create some balance issues.

Venom

[flatiron1]

yes I kinda like moving thru the stages of the war early, mid, late. One thing I don't like about this setup is the prices. I think the prices should reflect the capability of the planes not how much the cost to produce was. Of course I like allied so that influences my thinking I guess.

[TheBug]

Little drunk to fully comprehend this but I think I agree.  Enjoyed the war on the small AW map, enjoyed last week.  Something that is a blend of both sounds good to me.  Tonight, although I can't say it is indicative of every night of this setup, was kinda boring to me.   The weather, immersing as it is, is a bit much I'm thinking too. 

[TheBug]

yes I kinda like moving thru the stages of the war early, mid, late. One thing I don't like about this setup is the prices. I think the prices should reflect the capability of the planes not how much the cost to produce was. Of course I like allied so that influences my thinking I guess.

Think cost should reflect a rarity factor, not capability. 

[flatiron1]

whats a rarity factor Herr Bug

[TheBug]

Basically the more the plane was produced during the war the cheaper it would be, the rare planes during the war would be very expensive.

[Halo46]

It seems to me that this arena, when there is a battle scenario running, should be about the war. If pilots want to up for a quick furball, AH2 has numerous areas this can be found in. AvA is not intended for "every" player as far as I can tell, but like minded pilots looking for more immersion. I like to fight as much as any of you, I may not be that good at it, but if I want to just do that, I will go to the appropriate arena. I do not understand the thinking that all arenas in AH2 need to be the same, nor that they should cater to every pilot.

I believe this strat scenario needs some tweaking. There are many issues I didn't care for, mostly the map layout and the many settings issues. The price of the aircraft though should reflect the cost of the aircraft. There is absolutely no reason to use any other criteria than the actual (or as close as possible) price. Increase the amount each spends, OK, maybe, but basing prices on players desire to fly a certain airframe is not what it is about in my opinion. Funny this wasn't so much an issue last week.

I feel the first focus is on improving player conduct. Do we want a scenario that promotes the dump and jump tactics that are so prevalent at present? I am sure both sides are doing it at some level. How do we prevent this and give incentive to return to base and land? I do not promote perks as an incentive, but do not know enough about the scoring dynamics to provide an answer at present. Perhaps someone else does?

It is getting a bit boring in there because many do not care about returning safely to base except those who like this immerstion element. I refuse to bail from a plane just to up on the other side of the map or to return to hit a strat that much sooner, I believe to do otherwise is gamey and lacks sportsmanship. Using an aircraft in a manor it was not employed/designed for in real life bothers me as well. B17s did not fly NOE deep into Germany and bomb a target over and over under 1000 ft. Up a 38 or a 51 if you want to do an NOE raid. Same for any other aircraft that is misused, be it allied or axis.

One reason there are no big furballs is because the allies, for the most part, have stopped escorting buffs and are instead spread out porking. Not implying the axis is not porking as well, I don't watch every player, but when someone ups to counter an interloper, the porker tends to run or jump. Again, just the perspective from my little view of things. So fights are to be found.

I would like to see some answers to address these issues, the major hurdle I see, is that the parties are more interested in getting uber/their favorite rides. We have every other arena to do that in, lets leave our preferences at the door and saddle up what we are given and give each other hell. I will be looking for you on my six. 

[a4944]

It seems to me that this arena, when there is a battle scenario running, should be about the war. If pilots want to up for a quick furball, AH2 has numerous areas this can be found in. AvA is not intended for "every" player as far as I can tell, but like minded pilots looking for more immersion. I like to fight as much as any of you, I may not be that good at it, but if I want to just do that, I will go to the appropriate arena. I do not understand the thinking that all arenas in AH2 need to be the same, nor that they should cater to every pilot.

The war would still be there.  It would be a balanced war.  Is it realistic to have two or three airfields populated with aircraft?  Is it realistic to have the P51D against the 109F?  Where is the immersion in this? 

I believe this strat scenario needs some tweaking. There are many issues I didn't care for, mostly the map layout and the many settings issues. The price of the aircraft though should reflect the cost of the aircraft. There is absolutely no reason to use any other criteria than the actual (or as close as possible) price. Increase the amount each spends, OK, maybe, but basing prices on players desire to fly a certain airframe is not what it is about in my opinion. Funny this wasn't so much an issue last week.

I'm open about the pricing as long as it is fair to both sides and develops balanced game play.  Last week was fun because it was balanced.  There were B17s and the 190s.  There were P51Ds and 109K4s.  Great and fair match-ups. 

I feel the first focus is on improving player conduct. Do we want a scenario that promotes the dump and jump tactics that are so prevalent at present? I am sure both sides are doing it at some level. How do we prevent this and give incentive to return to base and land? I do not promote perks as an incentive, but do not know enough about the scoring dynamics to provide an answer at present. Perhaps someone else does?

Perhaps this is partially caused by the aircraft being in the rear fields and the very long flight times.  Having more aircraft at the forward fields should help resolve this issue.  I see no value in flying 2 to 3 sectors just to get out of your own territory and before any potential for an encounter with an enemy.

I would like to see some answers to address these issues, the major hurdle I see, is that the parties are more interested in getting uber/their favorite rides. We have every other arena to do that in, lets leave our preferences at the door and saddle up what we are given and give each other hell. I will be looking for you on my six. 

The rolling plane set and limited choices to the commanders would account for this.  You would have realistic match-ups which whould help with the immersion factor.  I want a realistic and fun 109F4 vs Spit matchup, not a 109F4 vs P51D macthup.

The war would not change.  Only the availability and aircraft type available would change.  The war is a backdrop for the players.  This type of setup would not dictate any style of gameplay.  You want to hit a strategic target and help the war effort, then organize a raid and do it.  You want to intercept, then look for those raids.  You want a historical fighter vs fighter matchup then find a fight in the middle. 

Perhaps some other incentives could be developed for winning besides bragging rights.  Perhaps the winning commander could have more influence in picking the next map and perhaps get a slighty better ride but a historical ride for the rolling planeset time period and one which would not destroy the balance.  I believe this was done with the capture war format.

Venom

[Shifty]

It seems to me that this arena, when there is a battle scenario running, should be about the war. If pilots want to up for a quick furball, AH2 has numerous areas this can be found in. AvA is not intended for "every" player as far as I can tell, but like minded pilots looking for more immersion. I like to fight as much as any of you, I may not be that good at it, but if I want to just do that, I will go to the appropriate arena. 

It can also be said that there's a war in every arena, except maybe the DA.  There's no reason to limit what the AVA has to offer. This arena can have war, and fights. I don't understand why the two sides to this issue cannot see the two can feed off each other. I don't want to fly in an arena where all people are doing is slink around in the clouds, and porking each others strats. I also don't want to fly in an arena where all people do is up from two nearby bases and furball midway between the two.

I do not understand the thinking that all arenas in AH2 need to be the same, nor that they should cater to every pilot.

That's basically saying the arena should cater to you. One problem the AVA always had was it catered to one mindset. It was perfect for them, but offered very little to anyone else.
This is the only arena where you have two sides Axis vs Allied aircraft 24/7. This arena should cater to all those that want and Axis vs Allied setup, be it furballing, war fighting, whatever.

You start offering only one thing on a daily basis again, you'll have an empty arena again.

[stegor]

_{It seems to me that this arena, when there is a battle scenario running, should be about the war. If pilots want to up for a quick furball, AH2 has numerous areas this can be found in. AvA is not intended for "every" player as far as I can tell, but like minded pilots looking for more immersion. I like to fight as much as any of you, I may not be that good at it, but if I want to just do that, I will go to the appropriate arena. I do not understand the thinking that all arenas in AH2 need to be the same, nor that they should cater to every pilot.}


I subscribe every single word; this is the only arena where the player who wants a little immersion in WWII reality can have a little satisfaction. Who needs quick fights has 3 or 4  other options to choose from.

[thrila]

Where are people supposed to go who don't have hours to spend flying to find a couple of fights.  I primarily fly the AvA for the historical match-ups, everything else is secondary.  Of course i can go to different arenas to find quick fights, but not against historical opponents.  I fail to understand why some people do not wish this arena to become more accessible.  People being able to find fights in a short time peiod does not infringe on the ability  of others to perform missions and to participate in the war.

[Shifty]

People being able to find fights in a short time period does not infringe on the ability of others to perform missions and to participate in the war.

Well said, and vice versa. There's really no reason both ideologies can't survive in this arena, where we do have the only historical plane matchups.

[Easyscor]

Gentlemen, please consider the problems of balancing a 24/7 arena like the AvA.

In the SEA, we balance it by forcing player numbers to a ratio that will work for the planeset and the event. That isn't an option in the AvA, so a way must be found to attract players to the less popular side, whichever that is. IMO, Fork has done a brilliant job finding a method of attracting equal numbers of players to both sides, but if you think you have a better idea that will work, then by all means, suggest it here or start another thread.

If you want a different style of game play, and are suggesting this terrain isn't compatible with what you think the AvA is about, build and submit a terrain more to your liking.

I'm not poking my thumb in anyones eye here but my point is that the AvA is maturing into a different and better environment, and just like SEA events, you may not be interested in participating in each and every setup. That's OK, come and enjoy the ones you like, it's still the best full time arena available.

If you don't have time for anything other than the quick fight, then understandably, you won't like the AvA catering to a 'war' scenario with broad based player support, and I can understand it when a part of the game you love is taken away. Those that agree passionately with your desire for the quick fight, can make the time to organize that type of play in some other arena, if enough want it bad enough. Or use the same kind of creative thinking to request changes to the DA that will meet your particular gameplay, and attract like minded players, HTC has always been interested in increasing their games' appeal.

[whiteman]

It seems to me that this arena, when there is a battle scenario running, should be about the war. If pilots want to up for a quick furball, AH2 has numerous areas this can be found in. AvA is not intended for "every" player as far as I can tell, but like minded pilots looking for more immersion. I like to fight as much as any of you, I may not be that good at it, but if I want to just do that, I will go to the appropriate arena. I do not understand the thinking that all arenas in AH2 need to be the same, nor that they should cater to every pilot.

Like said furballs can feed off guys incoming to strat targets. The days I want to get into fights i fly near our strats and sure enough AXIS planes will show up.

I believe this strat scenario needs some tweaking. There are many issues I didn't care for, mostly the map layout and the many settings issues. The price of the aircraft though should reflect the cost of the aircraft. There is absolutely no reason to use any other criteria than the actual (or as close as possible) price. Increase the amount each spends, OK, maybe, but basing prices on players desire to fly a certain airframe is not what it is about in my opinion. Funny this wasn't so much an issue last week.

It's the first time this has ran so there of course will need some adjusting. Only thing I'm not sure about is pricing, price difference is pretty large between AXIS and Allied aircraft. Do the budgets set represent the actual budgets during WWII? Should prices be set to even the amount of AC available. The price list i saw before the event surprised me, the 262 is cheaper than the B-24, Lancaster and a couple others. Not sure if it even needs to be fixed, it's the first time and the staff can evaluate things at the end.

I feel the first focus is on improving player conduct. Do we want a scenario that promotes the dump and jump tactics that are so prevalent at present? I am sure both sides are doing it at some level. How do we prevent this and give incentive to return to base and land? I do not promote perks as an incentive, but do not know enough about the scoring dynamics to provide an answer at present. Perhaps someone else does?

I haven't seen any dump and jump from the allies or axis when i have been on, the squads playing in here make an effort to return and even send in more escorts to make sure safe return is possible.

It is getting a bit boring in there because many do not care about returning safely to base except those who like this immerstion element. I refuse to bail from a plane just to up on the other side of the map or to return to hit a strat that much sooner, I believe to do otherwise is gamey and lacks sportsmanship. Using an aircraft in a manor it was not employed/designed for in real life bothers me as well. B17s did not fly NOE deep into Germany and bomb a target over and over under 1000 ft. Up a 38 or a 51 if you want to do an NOE raid. Same for any other aircraft that is misused, be it allied or axis.

weather conditions the last week have made hi level bombing impossible. I agree then just take 51's and 38's but at the same time it's still a game and strategy and doing the unexpected can be fun.

One reason there are no big furballs is because the allies, for the most part, have stopped escorting buffs and are instead spread out porking. Not implying the axis is not porking as well, I don't watch every player, but when someone ups to counter an interloper, the porker tends to run or jump. Again, just the perspective from my little view of things. So fights are to be found.

Basic same response, haven't seen guys bail on me. Have seen them dive to the deck to drop ord on target and only had 1 guy that just flat out tried to run. That was just one guy, I've caught a few low lone axis buffs and the rode it out.

I would like to see some answers to address these issues, the major hurdle I see, is that the parties are more interested in getting uber/their favorite rides. We have every other arena to do that in, lets leave our preferences at the door and saddle up what we are given and give each other hell. I will be looking for you on my six. 

[Chilli]

It must really suck to be an AvA staffer.   There has been nothing but improvement from the gaming point of view to the player conduct, in the last couple of months.   Yet, we (yes I do it also) find things to be undesireable and lobby for change.

Congratulations AvA staff    I believe that you have silenced the critics who called this a mini MA.  For the last couple of months the arena was even worthy of its past identifier, "Combat Theater"

There are excellent points of view on how the arena could advance, in this post and most others.   I believe we are in need of a sticky = AvA Wishlist. 

For those who were "there" with me, it was a sometimes bitter experience,    and voicing our opinions, was a step in the right direction.  I think that we can continue to deliver this kind of dialogue, with as good results in a future wishlist format.

Now, my complaint:  You need more staffers!