Author Topic: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please  (Read 14665 times)

Offline TequilaChaser

  • AH Training Corps - Retired
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10173
      • The Damned - founded by Ptero in 1988
Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #345 on: August 02, 2008, 09:40:07 PM »
some good debating / discussion going on....Badboy could you or Murdr make a pdf of this thread...cutting out the un-needed portions?
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #346 on: August 03, 2008, 12:55:40 AM »
Sure... Consider two similar aircraft, let's say Spitfires, both same altitude, same speed (some speed below corner velocity) and neutral positions. You will picture them in a nose to tail turn on opposite sides of the circle, everything at this point is equal.

However, one of the pilots has the mindset of an angles fighter, let's call him Pilot A, the other pilot has the mindset of an energy fighter, let's call him Pilot B. Now, Pilot A wants to gain angles and he knows that he can maximise his turn rate by flying at corner velocity so he initiates a low yo-yo and maintains sufficient aft stick to stay on the edge of the stall. As he descends into the low yo-yo his speed increases and so does his turn rate, he is gaining angles. So far so good.

Now let's look at Pilot B's response. He can see Pilot A initiate a low yo-yo and recognises that Pilot A is attempting to gain an angular advantage, so his response is to enter a shallow spiral climb in order to gain a little altitude and make it more difficult for Pilot A to get a shot as he exits at the top of  his low yo-yo. He also pulls sufficient aft stick to remain at the edge of the stall, because he knows that he will also need to maximise his turn rate in the spiral climb and make it more difficult for Pilot A to get that shot. At the end of the maneuver sequence, Pilot A may have come very close to getting a shot, but for the sake of argument, let's say he didn't quite get his nose into position.

Now let's consider their relative energy situation. During this fight Pilot A increased his speed in the low yo-yo and pulled more G, both of which increased drag and cost energy. Also because his speed increased, he also lost thrust and that cost energy too. Pilot B maintained a maximum sustained turn at a lower speed and lower G therefore less drag and more thrust so he will have gained energy relative to pilot A. There will now be a significant energy difference between the two fighters. The fight is a long way from being over, but we can stop here because the point below can now be made

During that evolution, both aircraft were stall fighting the entire time. However, one had the intention of sacrificing energy for angles and flew his aircraft accordingly, and the other had the intention of sacrificing angles for energy and he also flew accordingly. One was the angles fighter, the other was the energy fighter and they were both stall fighting the whole time.

Hope that explanation helps to clarify it for you.


Yea, that was great ty. It actually sounds alot like a little engagement Murdr and I had like a year ago. He was A and I was B. I tried to do just that after 3-4 rounds of it. I kept making runs on him to watch how he did his pretty overshoot move. Eventually I couldn't get enough separation and got popped with a very nice shot from d800.
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc