Waffen SS Squad?

[Rich46yo]

You'll have to excuse rich, he falls back on "You sound like your about 13yo." whenever someone disagrees with him.

There goes Bronk, humping the ankle again.

I usually think I'm talking to a 13yo when they start screeching nonsense and accusing me of saying things I never did.

Like this goof who says I admire the SS. Where in hell did I ever say I admire the SS ?

Regarding atrocities by all sides during the war, here http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres_axis.html#Germany

Since you morons are incapable of using a search engine yourselves, reading yourselves, or doing research
 http://secondvortex.blogspot.com/2008/02/massacres-and-atrocities-wwii-germany.html
yourselves.http://www.rense.com/general39/allied.htm

I only included a few cause I know your attention spans are short. That, and Bronk is starting to get my ankle sticky.

Here, educate yourselves about the Waffen SS. I would send you books but they dont have many pictures so you probably wouldn't be interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS I include this cause its easy to read.
http://militaryhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/hitler_s_foreign_legion__waffen_ss This is actually a accurate description of the Polyglot of different types, and units, that wore the SS runes.

Heres one of the better sights for adults who wish to study actual history without screeching like hysterical feminine hygiene implements.
 
http://www.dasreich.ca/

Oops, gotta go. The little Bronk Chihuahua is breathing fast.

[Guppy35]

And you still haven't responded to my post.

[Guppy35]

LOL... so this is still going on 

So, Eicke and Dietrich will prove us that every Waffe-SS unit was full of evil nazis and they all commited war crimes and took part in genocide?

Next you will tell us to read Hitler's writings to prove that all Austrian were megalomaniac racists?

I don't doubt your sources or that you have read and studied them. I even agree on what they say. What I find lacking is how you set your argumentation based on the available info.

It is the hypocrisy in some posts here along the lines "they did it because they all were evil, but all our guys were good and heroes because they did only what was necessary" that bothers me. Surely they (the "good guys")may have done what they saw necessary, but the acts remain in some cases equally evil (note, in only some, because nazis are also known of cases of inhumane torture). For the dead civilians it did not make a difference whether they died from bullets at nazis' execution line or from allied bomb blasts. Even good men can do evil things. Admiting that allows one to evaluate the history more objectively.

E.g. yanksfan preeches quite subjectively about honorable soldiers. Is it only about "who started it"? Is it evil only to do something first and perfectly honorable to do it back? e.g. http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauLiberation/SoldiersKilled.html
How should one consider the whole organization behind this act if it is always about the organization and the acts of individual units cannot be separated?


No-one still knows about this Waffen-SS man called Larry Thorne. No honor eh? 

You gents want to keep dragging other events into this.  The question was is a Waffen SS name appropriate here.  As said before my opinion is no, and I've stated my reasons.  I use Deitrich and Eicke as examples of the leadership of those Waffen SS units since they commanded the 1st and the 2nd SS divisions.  Read about who they were, and what they instilled in their men as well as their impact on the formation of the Waffen SS and it's operation as essentially Hitler's private army seperate from the regular army under a different set of laws governing the behavior of it's soldiers, something demanded by Himmler after the Whermacht wanted to charge Waffen SS men with the murder of 50 Jews in Poland, under military law at the beginning of the war.  The list goes on and on.  It was an ideological, political and fanatical military arm of the Nazi Party.

Does that mean every SS man was a war criminal?  No.  That doesn't make the Waffen SS an appropriate squad name for a flight sim however.

[avionix]

I agree.  This squad name should not be in the game.  The men that made up the SS, swore an oath, not to their country or their comrades, but to Hitler.  That has been mentioned before.  Don't allow it.

[BlauK]

Does that mean every SS man was a war criminal?  No.  That doesn't make the Waffen SS an appropriate squad name for a flight sim however.

I'll buy that 

[sirvlad]

If you find that offensive go play another game,this game is supposed to be accurate. Why ignore what really happened. Some people agree with that stuff to you know.

[MORAY37]

If you find that offensive go play another game,this game is supposed to be accurate. Why ignore what really happened. Some people agree with that stuff to you know.

Ok then.  I'll ask you: how many fighter squadrons the Waffen SS operated?

In any order, this is a stupid thing to debate.  If you don't like it...... make a game to hunt down this particular squadron every time you are on, and every time you kill them, tell them why.
After all, as hitech says, "this game is all about pissin the other guy off."

[evenhaim]

If you find that offensive go play another game,this game is supposed to be accurate. Why ignore what really happened. Some people agree with that stuff to you know.

that was a pretty dumb post..

[Motherland]

If you find that offensive go play another game,this game is supposed to be accurate. Why ignore what really happened. Some people agree with that stuff to you know.

Notice the lack of swastikas on the vertical stabilizers of German aircraft the next time you play

[Rich46yo]

I agree.  This squad name should not be in the game.  The men that made up the SS, swore an oath, not to their country or their comrades, but to Hitler.  That has been mentioned before.  Don't allow it.

Everyone in the German armed forces and civil service swore a personal oath to Hitler beginning in 1934.

Heres the service oath the armed forces had to swear to

I swear by God this sacred oath that I shall render unconditional obedience to Adolf Hitler, the Führer of the German Reich and people, supreme commander of the armed forces, and that I shall at all times be ready, as a brave soldier, to give my life for this oath.

Civil service

I swear: I will be faithful and obedient to Adolf Hitler, Führer of the German Reich and people, to observe the law, and to conscientiously fulfill my official duties, so help me God.

Here was the SS oath

I swear to you
Adolf Hitler,
as leader and
chancellor of the nation
loyalty and bravery.
I vow to you
and to the
representatives appointed
by you obedience
unto death,
so help me God.

Can someone tell me the difference?

[Guppy35]

Rich, you need to pay attention better.  You are reading selectively and avoiding that which you can't respond to.

[Oldman731]

If you find that offensive go play another game,this game is supposed to be accurate. Why ignore what really happened. Some people agree with that stuff to you know.

Wow.

- oldman

[Rich46yo]

Rich, you need to pay attention better.  You are reading selectively and avoiding that which you can't respond to.

Now what are you babbling about? If its this

Again do some more research please before you go making those kind of statements.  Start with Sepp Deitrich and Theodore Eicke and their stories since they were the CO's of the first two SS combat divisions and then we'll go from there.  Then tell me about what professional men they were.

I answered it about 6 times already in this thread.

Here, I'll help you

Soldiers of every nation commited sickening atrocities in that war

[Guppy35]

Now what are you babbling about? If its this  I answered it about 6 times already in this thread.

Here, I'll help you

And what did you learn about those two men, Dietrich and Eicke?

I don't want some web link.  What did YOU learn?

You keep bouncing around but never answering.

[Soulyss]

Everyone in the German armed forces and civil service swore a personal oath to Hitler beginning in 1934.

Heres the service oath the armed forces had to swear to
Civil service Here was the SS oathCan someone tell me the difference?

I've so far ignored this post, and jumping in now to make a small point is probably a mistake but I thought I'd answer this question really quick. 

There is one glaring omission in the SS oath you posted, "law".  The Wehrmacht was historically and traditionally a non-political entity, swearing an oath to Hitler directly was controversial at the time, yet I still see that they swear to uphold the law, something the that is missing in the SS oath.