Run your car on water??????

[CAP1]

The MOT tests for unburnt fuel in a car's exhaust. Any more than about 2% and it fails. Most cars burn 99% or more of the fuel properly.

 

what is MOT?


if you really want to see just exactly how dirty hour car runs, remove the cats. then check the exhaus contents. you'll find hc, and co to be fairly high. that's what the cats are there for. they work differently, depending on design, but essentially, they burn off thewasted and unburnt fuel in the exhaust.

 if you live in the us, look underneath a few cars. count how many cats they have. basicly, the more cats a car comes equipped with, the dirtier/less efficient the engine runs.

[CAP1]

So did I untill I met a couple of guys here local to me and they showed me what they had done, had detailed driving logs before and after they installed their boosters and took me out for a couple of drives to see first hand what was happening.

I was impressed enough to give it a go myself. Mark has a 1999 Pontiac Bonneville running on a booster. I used to own the exact same car, well it was my wifes car but I drove it often enough and worked on it so I know first hand what sort of mileage that cars gets. Mark is getting around 47mpg out of his. That's unheard of in a stock Bonneville. Best I EVER got out of ours was 29mpg

Seeing is believing. I've seen.

and that's the 3800 series II v6? 
that's better than my geo stock. and a whole lot nicer of a car too.

[SD67]

Here in Oz our cars have one cat per header pipe.
I'm currently fitting my Fairmont with a High flow CAT and extractors, I just need to get a new slim LPG converter to clear them.

[CAP1]

Here in Oz our cars have one cat per header pipe.
I'm currently fitting my Fairmont with a High flow CAT and extractors, I just need to get a new slim LPG converter to clear them.

some here only have one per pipe.

v8 fords though......4 sometimes 5. v8 chevys, usually 2 or 3
v6 fords 2 or 3.

most hondas toyotas, ets only 1 per pipe......

all average numbers though. there are some variations and differences

[Hornet33]

and that's the 3800 series II v6? 
that's better than my geo stock. and a whole lot nicer of a car too.

Yeah that's the Bonneville SE with the 3.8L V6  My eyes almost popped out of my head when Mark showed me his logbook. Every fill up he took down the odometer reading and stapled the receipt for his gas purchase to the page. He also noted the station he bought the gas from, time of day, tire pressure, oil level. He has all his calculations written down for each fill up. He has a seperate log for the booster to keep track of when he tops it off, changes electrolite, and once a week he checks output from the booster and logs that as well.

He's a retired Navy Chief MK so he's all about the logbook. I offered to set him up with a spreadsheet for his computer to do all that stuff but he said then he would have to do everything twice and since he's retired he didn't want to do that much work  You just can't help but like those old crusty Chiefs like that.

Anway I'm keeping a log like that as well so I can see how my truck is doing in the real world as well as the dyno tests I'm having done. Lab tests are nice but the real world is the real world and that's where the thing is either going to save me some money or not, and in the end that's all I really care about.

[Bronk]

 if you live in the us, look underneath a few cars. count how many cats they have. basicly, the more cats a car comes equipped with, the dirtier/less efficient the engine runs.

Slight disagreement here. Take the size of say all 4 cats on an 85 stang. Then compare those to an 85 Z28 cat. That Z28 cat is huge.

[CAP1]

Slight disagreement here. Take the size of say all 4 cats on an 85 stang. Then compare those to an 85 Z28 cat. That Z28 cat is huge.

this is true, but i think the Z still only has that single one. the 4 on an 85 mustang 5.0L would contain a lot more catalyst.

[Bronk]

this is true, but i think the Z still only has that single one. the 4 on an 85 mustang 5.0L would contain a lot more catalyst.

I think you'll find if you were to weigh the the contents of the cats, it's be to close to call.

[Nashwan]

had detailed driving logs before and after they installed their boosters

The really important thing isn't before and after, it's a test with the device turned on, and another with it turned off. See http://fuelsaving.info/drive_cycle.htm for an explanation.

what is MOT?

It's an annual test for cars over 3 years old in the UK. It tests safety (brakes etc) and emissions. Catalytic converters weren't required on UK cars until 1992, so cars registered before that date are still running without them. They still have meet the emissions standard in force when they were registered.

if you really want to see just exactly how dirty hour car runs, remove the cats. then check the exhaus contents. you'll find hc, and co to be fairly high.

I'd be surprised if you find it higher than 2%, with or without catalyst.

[Hornet33]

The really important thing isn't before and after, it's a test with the device turned on, and another with it turned off. See http://fuelsaving.info/drive_cycle.htm for an explanation.

How would having before and after logs not be important? Mark started his log 6 months before he installed his booster and was averaging 27mpg over that 6 month period. After he installed the booster he has 18 months of log entries and over that 18 month period he averaged 39mpg with three different booster designs. The current booster he has installed he has 5 months of logs and that one is averaging 47mpg over the 5 month period.

How can data like that not be important considering what we're trying to accomplish?

[CAP1]

How would having before and after logs not be important? Mark started his log 6 months before he installed his booster and was averaging 27mpg over that 6 month period. After he installed the booster he has 18 months of log entries and over that 18 month period he averaged 39mpg with three different booster designs. The current booster he has installed he has 5 months of logs and that one is averaging 47mpg over the 5 month period.

How can data like that not be important considering what we're trying to accomplish?

it doesn't matter, because only lab results matter. remember? most reading this think that what really happens on your car doesn't matter, and if it's not backed by lab tests, then it cannot possibly be true.

 forget the extrs $$ in your pocket every week. that's not really there either

[Nashwan]

How would having before and after logs not be important?

I said it's not as important as having tests with the device on and off.

it doesn't matter, because only lab results matter. remember? most reading this think that what really happens on your car doesn't matter, and if it's not backed by lab tests, then it cannot possibly be true.

The reason why tests with the device on and off are important is that we want to know if hydrogen injection is important, or if the other work on the engine is what makes the difference.

Nobody would deny you can improve fuel consumption by working on your engine. If it was running too rich, for example, you can make a major improvement. The question is if taking some power to produce hydrogen, then injecting that hydrogen in to the engine, results in improvements in fuel consumption.

For that you need tests of your vehicle after it has been worked on, with and without the hydrogen device running.

[vorticon]

you guys seem to be looking at it in far to simplistic terms. theres a lot of subsystems this can effect.

from what i remember...the hydroxy supposedly helps decrease engine temperatures...wouldnt this decrease the amount of work the cooling system has to do, and therefore the load that puts on the engine? and if it does, if the decrease in that system is greater than the increase running the minor load on the alternator...a mileage increase will be seen.

and thats just one part of the system.

[Hornet33]

So I need to do what? Have my truck run on the dyno three times now. I have the before install run done. Now I need one with the unit running and anouther one with it turned off after it's installed?

Because I did work to the engine? I'm NOT doing any work to the engine other than drilling one small hole into the air intake pipe to mount a tube fitting for the HHO gas to enter the air flow. The EFIE (Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancer) is wired directly to the booster circuit. It's only on when the booster is on. Same as Marks car is set up. If I'm not running the booster the truck is running in stock mode. When I flip the little switch and turn the booster on the EFIE will also turn on and send a corrected O2 sensor signal to the computer to adjust the fuel air mix to take into account the HHO input and the higher O2 level in the exhaust, thus leaning out the mix to be replaced with the HHO.

With this system there is ONLY before and after results, no middle ground.

Geez if your going to try and debunk something learn a little bit about how it's supposed to work and how a correct installation is accomplished.

[Angus]

you guys seem to be looking at it in far to simplistic terms. theres a lot of subsystems this can effect.

from what i remember...the hydroxy supposedly helps decrease engine temperatures...wouldnt this decrease the amount of work the cooling system has to do, and therefore the load that puts on the engine? and if it does, if the decrease in that system is greater than the increase running the minor load on the alternator...a mileage increase will be seen.

and thats just one part of the system.

So, you put full load on the alternator in order to decrease the load on the waterpump