Zazen13 please explain "Grace"

[Dragon]

Zazen me ol fruit.  Don't you dare go changing your writing style.  I appreciate a concise educated conversation.  I especially like your use of words.  Why use a whole sentence when one word says it all.

Don't let us fiko's drag u down 

x2

It's always a pleasure to read your posts.



I like to think of Grace as the active principle of righteousness, or "right action".  The universe as it is presented to us each moment in time is a complex latticework of God's design, always in harmonious balance and perfect. A graceful person seamlessly flows with the environment without disturbing it, a function of it, similarly perfectly balanced. Moreover, the truly graceful person does so in an effortless way. Grace is not a function of effort or deliberate intention but an incidental byproduct of an unconscious symbiosis with the "right way" of life. Grace is beautiful because it is passive action. The act of doing something without any semblance of conflict between the individual and the will of the universe, of which we are an inseparable part, to maintain equilibrium in motion. For example, in pool I always tell my students, go with the flow, don't fight it, let the table tell you how to play the shot, don't force your play upon it.



Well done!

[Saurdaukar]

Actually a very insightful assessment.

<--feels "alienated."

(whatever that means)

[dkff49]

Well, I can only assume that you aren't calling me a thread stalker Zaz.  But I will freely tell you that you need to tone down your prose a bit.  You write like a teenager who is trying to impress someone with all of the fancy big words that you know.  Or...  Actually, you remind me of a lawyer, who uses language to manipulate meaning.

Honestly, I really don't have any substantial reason to slam you...  But, honestly, your posts typically read as if you are talking down to your readers.

Even when I agree with you, which is frequent, your writing style can be annoying.

I hope that you will take this post for what it is and evaluate your writing style.

Sound to me like someone is jealous. Maybe this person is unable to put his words together as well.

I found your little write up about grace to be a bit like poetry in itself. Well thought out and wrote very graceful. Just the any write up about grace should be.

Excellent job Zazen keep it up man

[Zazen13]

Your linguistic skills will alter a bit when you become a father, Zazen. Trust me.

Haha Yea, you're not the first person to tell me that actually...That's part of the reason I have some moderate skill with language. My parents (both gone) were extremely intelligent and well-educated. They made it a point to never, ever talk down to me. They spoke to me as if they were talking to one of their colleagues, even at just 3 years old. As a result I was always a "teacher's freaky/scary pet" in class. When the teacher asked to have something abstract explained or defined the classroom would grow silent and everyone would turn to look at me in excited anticipation of being AWED, including the teacher...Later in life this gave me a HUGE competitive advantage in academic life, the workplace and in social settings (intelligent women find language quite sexy, believe it or not). For that reason I will make every effort to not talk down to my son either. People grossly underestimate the ability of young children to learn language skills and through that symbolism, abstract concepts. That part of their brain is a dry sponge just soaking up everything. They learn 100 times more rapidly and easily than an adult could.

[scot12b]

I will put it to you like this Zazen is wicked smart!

[999000]

Zazen13 Thanks for the reply ..your a gentlemen and a scholar!.......Zazen13..any chance you would expand your defintion to what is called God's Grace.... Thank You Sir! <S>999000

[Sloehand]

And thread stalkers are like spawncampers, content to take cheap potshots from the woods at brave souls with enough moxie to "hang it out there" for the sake of entertainment and fun even if at their own expense...

Yeeeessss.  And your point......           

[Zazen13]

Zazen13 Thanks for the reply ..your a gentlemen and a scholar!.......Zazen13..any chance you would expand your defintion to what is called God's Grace.... Thank You Sir! <S>999000

Well, if I do this, this thread is going to probably get booted to the O'Club.

Divine grace is the reconciliation of mortal souls with the divine.  

All mortal beings are intrinsically flawed simply by virtue of the fact that they are subject to the vagaries and temptations of corporeal existence. Through the unavoidable manifestation of these flaws during the course of mortal life a chasm develops separating the individual's soul from the spiritual resonance of the universe. Divine grace is the spiritual "tuning fork" that brings back into harmony the divine consciousness and the soul of a sentient being. Once resonance of spiritual essence is reconciled that soul is considered living in "Divine grace", a state that continues into the afterlife. The central concept of Divine grace is that it is unconditional. Individual souls are not necessarily bound by any requirements. It is a gift from God, the reasons for bestowment known only to him.

For example, a water droplet in a cloud is water, it has the same basic properties as the water in the ocean. But, a water droplet in a cloud is not the ocean. It is a separate and unique element representative of the whole in terms of properties, but divorced from it by time, space and unfulfilled potential. Now, atmospheric conditions change and suddenly the water droplet in the cloud falls in the form of a raindrop, by no will of its own, but as a result of universal forces. Suddenly the water droplet is now in the ocean, separate only in physical theory, but from the perspective of absolution it has become an indivisible entity.

[DDogs98]

The central concept of Divine grace is that it is unconditional. Individual souls are not necessarily bound by any requirements. It is a gift from God, the reasons for bestowment known only to him.

Hating to snip off your existential example...

A definition of grace that serves me personally is "undeserved and unconditional gift".  While it is a large aspect of the redemptive philosphy of Christianity (devine), it can play out in aspects of our non-spiritual lives as well.  I once gave away a favorite electric guitar to a friend who had casually admired it.  From his perspective he had received a totally unexpected and unearned bounty.  He occasionally pulls it out at gigs and plays the heck out of it and that honors the gift.  Grace back at me.

Perhaps Grace is the foundation of "pay it forward' and should be the foundation of our treatment of one another in situations where we are somewhat anonymous (internet)?  I can't go that deep, however.  The other spiritual concept I am fond of is "Keep It Simple, Stupid".

Grace to You, Zazen.

Raider

[SkyRock]

I will put it to you like this Zazen is wicked smaht!

fixed!

[Zazen13]

Perhaps Grace is the foundation of "pay it forward' and should be the foundation of our treatment of one another in situations where we are somewhat anonymous (internet)?  I can't go that deep, however.  The other spiritual concept I am fond of is "Keep It Simple, Stupid".

Grace to You, Zazen.

Raider

If you read my original explanation of grace you will see that concept implied. The universe seeks to keep "everything" balanced, nothing lost, nothing gained, "The Law of conservation of mass and energy" incarnate. This includes things on the personal and emotional energy level.

In your guitar example, you intuitively recognized the desire the friend had for the guitar. By giving it to him you complete that desire thereby intuitively balancing desire and fulfilment in him. Replacing the loss of a material possession that held some value for you with a proportional amount of satisfaction from making another person happy inadvertently kept you in balance as well. The difference between doing that gracefully or not gracefully is a matter of differentiating empathically instinctive actions from selfish intentional ones. Giving the guitar to him as an instinctive response to being in a position to make another human being happy is gracing him. But, if you did it to make yourself feel good and have the friend massage your ego by praising your generous nature, that's not graceful.

I'll give another quick example of this. I have a friend who volunteers in a soup kitchen. But, she's not happy just doing it anonymously. She'll tell everyone who stands still long enough of her tireless volunteer work in order to elicit adoration from her peers. That is not being "graceful". A graceful person would work in the soup kitchen and never say a word about it. Fleeting smiles of appreciation on the unfortunate soul's faces that she served each morning would be the unintended, unsolicited and purely incidental reward of her graceful service.

[999000]

Zazen13, God has grace you with a wonderful mind..thanks for sharing!
<S> 999000

[Zazen13]

Zazen13, God has grace you with a wonderful mind..thanks for sharing!
<S> 999000

No problem 999000, I hope I provided some cause for thoughtful contemplation. I don't know about having a "wonderful mind". But, I have never been content to merely skim and skip upon the superficial surface of the water of life. I have always been one to dive right in and try to get to the essence of it through deep introspection and the thorough exploration of abstract concepts. Anyone is welcome to whatever meager insights I may have gleaned from my peculiar perspective, even if just for the purpose of catalyzing one's own healthy intellectual curiosity. 

[pipz]

I enjoy your posts Zaz.Some I find very thought provoking.I have also always liked it when you break down some facts and figures to present an idea.Keep it up pal!

Pipz

[Zazen13]

I enjoy your posts Zaz.Some I find very thought provoking.I have also always liked it when you break down some facts and figures to present an idea.Keep it up pal!

Pipz

Thanks Pipz. I remember one of those famous posts where I did that. The strangest thing happened right after I posted it. The ability to break down statistics by country was suddenly and inexplicably removed from the game, never to return...