The artful HO

[SlapShot]

What's next, any shot not taken from the dead six position is a HO?


ack-ack

That would only be true if the guy is checking his 6 when you shoot ...

[angelsandair]

It's simple really if I get killed you are an HO tard twit, if you get killed I have excuted a perfect frontal aspect shot 

Eh, I could care less really. Only person I HO now is SkyRock, just to make sure I still can keep my own little spot on his Right Ankle, the VIP ankle

[SlapShot]

Well, my intention wasn't to impose anything in particular, but instead to merely point out that the ultra-stringent definition of a "pure" zero degree deflection HO really doesn't capture the true essence of what makes a HOer a HOer.

What your trying to do is make the "line" fuzzy. As far as I am concerned, anything outside of "pure" zero is not an HO. If I fly for a lead turn to the initial merge (in the MA), and the opponent performs a lazy counter to my lead turn and exposes his plane to my guns while he has no guns solution ... I will rake him from stem to stern. My "intent" at the onset was not to go guns to guns but to setup a better positional angle for after the first merge, had he countered my lead turn.

The lead turn is always my first intention when fighting ... now when I pull lead and the opponent spoils the lead, then I know I am in for a good fight.

The guy that pulls around for a face shot every chance he gets to the almost total exclusion of all else, whether it's the result of a lead turn or not, is still a HOer in the spirit of it. They are actually worse in a way than the guy who lines up nose to nose from 3k out guns a blazing from 1k in.

Nope ... they are the same guy ... they try from 1.5K out and will continue try to face shoot through out the fight, rather than try and get angles. These guys don't usually last more than two merges.

I'm not in any way placing a value judgement upon the tactical validity or "fairness" of it, other than it's silly for someone to argue they didn't HO someone because it was technically a 5 degree forward quarter deflection shot, not a zero degree shot...That "hair-splitting" causes more purse fights on 200 than anything else.

Actually, your interpretation of what is a "HO" is what causes, or is the reason for all the HO whines on 200. If you get taken out by a deflection shot ... then you blew it, whether it be the initial merge or any subsequent merges ... suck it up, learn from it and move on.

Personally, there's a number of situations I will take a forward quarter shot, including a HO on someone, but there are also many situations I will sprain my wrist to try to avoid it. With my aim I am almost always in a position of advantage when it comes to forward quarter deflection shots...So, I will usually take a forward quarter shot in the following situations:

1) Against any 262
2) If I have someone hanging on their prop at the top of a rope as they are wobbling and I have gravity assist.
3) If I am low and slow against a superior turner as I am unlikely to gain a better angle.
4) If I am outnumbered more than 2 to 1.
5) If I am being bounced by more than 1 and have enough E to pull into his face without stall wobbling.
6) If I am at the top of someone else's rope and have enough E that I am not "falling off" and stall wobbling as they are coming back down.

I've HO'd the living crap out of people in all of the above situations, relatively few of those million+ times was at "pure" zero degrees deflection, but I still HO'd the crap out of them. It would have made no difference whatsoever if my shot happened to be at zero degrees or 8 degrees deflection, the intent and outcome was the exact same.

I agree with all those too.

[Gixer]

I've started giving any top tier/easy rides three passes with their HO shots after that I now shoot back and with the hub 37 and with it's advantage I usually win against planes that don't have nose cannons. Often with the plane exploding at very close range before the collision and I get a nice blast effect to fly through.  

If someone is flying a high eny aircraft I will never take a HO shot on them, unless vs many situation and I'm in a bad situation. PW,Oil Radiator etc.

The reason I don't go for HOs is the same reason why I don't fly with the pack and vulch/pick over enemy bases. Because it's a cheap way to get kills, requires little skill and is the stuff of newbies.  


<S>...-Gixer

[crockett]

Regardless of the intent, the OP is purely to blame for getting hit.  He could have used a many number of different merges but he decided to play chicken, flinched and dove under the other guy.  His merge tactic is what caused him to get hit, not the other guy's.  Had he created some seperation he would have opened up a myriad of options to choose from instead of diving under.  Honestly, diving under the other guy at the merge is one of the dumbest merges you can pull, it leaves you totally exposed from nose to tail and the hits usually cause critical, if not fatal damage.


ack-ack

I almost always dive under at a crossing angle when I see a guy flying at me straight and level knowing he intends to HO. This allows me to pop back up and over to start lining up on his six. If the Hotwits tries to pop a angle on me as I dive in, it just helps set him up even better. I can't think of any time anyone has ever hit me doing that move if I'm in control of the merge and not low on E.

[angelsandair]

And when I'm hit, it's usually 30s or .50s...

[Steve]

Care to put that to a test?

I won't speak for BiP, but I'm your huckleberry. We'll DA, you come to the merge guns hot and go for the HO.  We'll see what happens from there. Say, best out of 5?

[pluck]

What's next, any shot not taken from the dead six position is a HO?


ack-ack

funny enough, I was called out a few months ago for just this reason... and no, there was no one else fighting the guy.

[Ack-Ack]

I used to HO regularly.  I was good at it.  I set my guns to 650 and always flew cannoned birds.  I won 85-90% of HO's, probably 80% without damage.

When I went in, even if the other guy dodged, I could adjust and kill him almost every time.   Technically then, according to you, it wasn't a HO.

I guess I should just get back to it then.  Thanks for the encouragement.

Oh please, you're just twisting the definition of HO to fit your own needs.  A lead turn is not a HO shot by any stretch of the imagination, it's common and basic knowledge ACM and a proper merge tactic.


ack-ack

[Zazen13]

Actually, your interpretation of what is a "HO" is what causes, or is the reason for all the HO whines on 200. If you get taken out by a deflection shot ... then you blew it, whether it be the initial merge or any subsequent merges ... suck it up, learn from it and move on.

Ok, let's illustrate this with a concrete example. Substitute us with any two players you like in the example below.

I am flying toward you nose to nose. For whatever reason we close within guns range in "pure" HO joust fashion. You see I open fire at about D700. You then return fire with a short burst to distract me before jinking nose-down in an attempt to avoid my fire and set-up a merge. I let loose another squirt and nail your fuselage and canopy with some cannon fire and you find yourself in the tower.

Removing from the equation any interpretation of who's to "blame" for what. I shot you down at deflection technically. But, in reality it was a HO shot that was only at any angular deflection because you happened to change your aspect to me at the last moment before the rounds struck your aircraft. To say that isn't a HO is like saying a woman who has sex for drugs alone, not money, isn't technically a prostitute. Getting out a protractor and measuring the presence or absence of a deflection angle isn't what makes a HO a HO, it's the intent of the shot. The HO'ee jinking away from a barrage of cannon fire in vain doesn't exonerate the HO'er just because as the round struck him there happened to be a hair of deflection there...

[BnZ]

The thought that Ho'ing is a valid tactic seems completely wrong minded  to me. I describe a valid tactic as one that gives you a reasonable chance of dispatching your enemy without yourself having a reasonable chance of sustaining moderate to fatal damage. Considering this, HO'ing is not a valid tactic, barring desperate circumstances.

There you go. That is really all that needs to be said on the issue, as opposed to 9 pages of "I'm too good to HO..." I like to avoid the HOs because I want to LAND at the end of the sortie, and 50/50 ain't good enough odds for me.

[Ack-Ack]

Ok, let's illustrate this with a concrete example. Substitute us with any two players you like in the example below.

I am flying toward you nose to nose. For whatever reason we close within guns range in "pure" HO joust fashion. You see I open fire at about D700. You then return fire with a short burst to distract me before jinking nose-down in an attempt to avoid my fire and set-up a merge. I let loose another squirt and nail your fuselage and canopy with some cannon fire and you find yourself in the tower.

Removing from the equation any interpretation of who's to "blame" for what. I shot you down at deflection technically. But, in reality it was a HO shot that was only at any angular deflection because you happened to change your aspect to me at the last moment before the rounds struck your aircraft. To say that isn't a HO is like saying a woman who has sex for drugs alone, not money, isn't technically a prostitute. Getting out a protractor and measuring the presence or absence of a deflection angle isn't what makes a HO a HO, it's the intent of the shot. The HO'ee jinking away from a barrage of cannon fire in vain doesn't exonerate the HO'er just because as the round struck him there happened to be a hair of deflection there...

Plane A and Plane B are approaching each other for the merge.  Plane A creates seperation prior to the merge while Plane B stays on his course.  As the range closes, Plane A uses the seperation to go into a lead turn at the merge.  Plane A is presented with a deflection shot as a result of the lead turn and rakes Plane B from nose to tail, resulting in the kill.  How is this a HO?

ack-ack

[Zazen13]

Plane A and Plane B are approaching each other for the merge.  Plane A creates seperation prior to the merge while Plane B stays on his course.  As the range closes, Plane A uses the seperation to go into a lead turn at the merge.  Plane A is presented with a deflection shot as a result of the lead turn and rakes Plane B from nose to tail, resulting in the kill.  How is this a HO?

ack-ack

In that example Plane B isn't really trying to maneuver for the merge so you couldn't say it was a HO if plane A maneuvered to gain separation. Now if plane B tried to perform a merge maneuver as plane A performed the lead turn and it became a face shot which plane A goes to guns on, rather than completing the merge "cold", then that would be a HO/face-shot in the forward deflection arc. You can't really fault the one who tries to gain separation for a HO in that circumstance if the other does nothing to counter.

[Ack-Ack]

In that example Plane B isn't really trying to maneuver for the merge so you couldn't say it was a HO if plane A maneuvered to gain separation. Now if plane B tried to perform a merge maneuver as plane A performed the lead turn and it became a face shot which plane A goes to guns on, rather than completing the merge "cold", then that would be a HO/face-shot in the forward deflection arc. You can't really fault the one who tries to gain separation for a HO in that circumstance if the other does nothing to counter.

But you're assuming that Plane A was maneuving for seperation for the HO on merge.  Your mistake which you keep on making is you're equating a lead turn with the beginning of a HO merge, which it clearly isn't.  You are simply changing the definition to fit your own needs to try and prove your point.  No matter how you spin it, the example I gave is clearly not a HO by any stretch of the imagition.  Even if Plane B was to maneuver by going vertical on the merge, Plane A would still have a clean shot as a result of the lead turn, resulting in Plane B getting on the sides of the fuselodge.

ack-ack

[BaldEagl]

I won't speak for BiP, but I'm your huckleberry. We'll DA, you come to the merge guns hot and go for the HO.  We'll see what happens from there. Say, best out of 5?

OK.  Look me up.  It's worth a test.