Crockett: So are you trying to say that supporting McSame would be any different? Maybe Obama will be the biggest flop in history, maybe he was totally suck, but then again maybe he will be good. No one will know until he's in office. On the other hand we already know how bad Bush sucks. The sheer fact that McSame has voted with Bush 90% of the time just shows he will be 4 more years of the same thing Bush has been.
Well, Obama has actually served me in the state of Illinois. When he wasn't voting "present" on politically risky issues he toed the party line at both the state and federal level to a higher degree than McCain supported Bush.
As for 1 & 2 I can't really say because I haven't looked them up and have no info on them.. however bashing him on number 3 seems pretty odd IMO. You are saying 3. Significant votes that went against the party Shouldn't that be a good thing?
I've posted about 1 & 2 (1. Legislative change he actually authored instead of taking credit for after Emil Jones handed it off to him. 2. Endorsements that bucked the State Machine/Combine) multiple times in threads, some of which you were participating in. Nor is it impossible to find valid, neutral information on these online -- if you are interest.
Most of his notable legislation (when he wasn't voting present 130 times or so) was not his. His mentor Emil Jones handed it to him to make a political star. He has endorsed political hacks in Illinois over far more qualified Republicans AND Democrats. For example, Todd Stroger, Rod Blagovitch and Dorothy Tillman.
Here's a link to my last 3-part post on the subject:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,246098.15.htmlAs for point 3 (3. Significant votes that went against the party)... That should be a good thing -- if he did it. But, he almost never voted against his party.
While I don't know what the specific votes are, because you list none, shouldn't it be a good thing that he is willing to vote against his own party? Rather than tote the party line even if he thinks it's wrong? That's one of the things that makes Bush such a bad president, because he's a leader for only half this country not the whole country. How many times have you seen Bush reach across the isle and do something against his party?
By all means, don't vote for Bush in this election. As noted above, Obama does not vote outside the party line to any notable degree, so your criticism applies equally to Obama. In fact, that is not a criticism of McCain, which is why so many socially conservative Republicans find fault with him. Say what you want about his positions, but good... or bad... McCain reaches across the aisle.
I've never said Obama is going to bring change and have us all riding unicorns with rainbows in the background. I look at Obama as the best of the worst picks that we have. Obama is by far not my perfect candidate, but I'm also not going to sit back watching all the tards on this forum bashing him left and right while ignoring the faults of their own "chosen one".
If you simply bash McCain while obviously ignoring Obama's faults (in this post you admit to not researching your candidate legislative history or political history) then doesn't that make you a "tard" too?
The only reason I even get involved in the political topics on this board is to put a bit of balance on the subject because this board has a overwhelming group of blow hard right wingers. The few of us that stand up to talk about the other side get bashed endlessly by the same group that never see anything wrong with their own guy.So do you really think it's that odd that the few of us that do stand up against the blowhards have to keep a firm stance?
So, you play the role of liberal blow hard? I prefer to try for educated voter, myself. I didn't vote for Bush in either of his elections, because I didn't feel him to be a candidate I could support for reasons I came to through my own research and analysis. I have also voted for Democrats for federal and state office (usually to my regret in this state). My opinions on Obama come from the same practice. Obama is selling a bill of goods, just like most politicians. I can respect an Obama supporter who favors big government, progressive, business as usual Washington politics and realizes that Obama can potentially deliver the promise unlike Ted Kennedy or Nancy Pelosi who will never sit in the Oval Office. For those that think he represents some agent of change in Washington politics -- Tony Rezko has a bridge he wants to sell you.
In fact if you go back and look at my posts you wont find very many of me talking about how great Obama is and that I think he's going to have us all singing and dancing. What you see me posting is mostly info about the hypocrisy of the right wing. You will however see me respond to false claims about Obama, but you don't see me making posts claiming he's the next best thing to sliced bread.
The only claims you seem to attack are the outrageous ones. You don't seem to address the real, valid criticisms like his political record in Illinois which you haven't even researched.
As I've posted before I'm a registered independent but I lean to the left because of the current political climate and the way the Republican party has been over run by the Religious Right and the Neo Cons it makes me have to lean even further left.
At best, the Republican party gives lip service to the Christian right, something the Christian right has noticed, BTW. As for the Neocons -- well, I agree. Fortunately, I don't think the NeoCons have much support in the party these days, at lest not more than they had before their champion Bush took office.
If the Republicans were "actually" conservatives like they "claim" to be then I'd likely lean further to the Right. I'm all for less govt control and less govt spending along with lower taxes, but the truth is that's nothing more than a pipe dream and the current crop of Republicans including McSame sure as hell don't believe in it. Sorry but actions speak louder than words.
I could have written that
Juan McShamnesty is hardly know for any strong, libertarian small govt. focus. But, he has, at times, acted as a reformer. Not always to my agreement or approval (McCain/Finegold), or much past making noises in that regard with few tough reform initiatives. However, while the perfect libertarian leaning small govt. candidate doesn't exist in this race or on the public scene, for that matter, I might give McCain the benefit of the doubt for 4 years. Here's why.
He is at the end of his political life. He does, I believe, care for America more than most of his peers and is at a point in life and his career where he can be more of his own man. He MIGHT actually try to live up to his reform campaign promises. Will he be able to actually accomplish much? One might suggest not. But, If he even tries it's a start. IMO a real reformer working to get special interests out of Washington is the first big step towards a smaller, better govt.
Obama, for all his talk of change, will not bring about a smaller govt. or reform the current pay to play system. His programs make that obvious, and his special interest support also debunks his claims as being a man only of the people. I already feel the noose of Obama-style change at home, both in lost rights and the highest tax rate in America with my middle class family earning too much to qualify for most of the programs we pay for.
Frankly, the one issue that may have me voting for McCain instead of a protest vote for Barr (not that it much matters in Illinois) is the though that he will put strict constructionists on the Supreme Court. I would give Bush more credit for doing that during his term, if he didn't have his initial picks shot down and was seemingly forced in that direction by the party. Anyway, I'm tired of legislating from the bench since that is not in the Supremes' job description and we can change our "living Constitution" using the legislative and executive branches -- as intended.
Also, with a Democratic Congress it might be good to actually have a Republican president that will act as a brake on the most ridiculous of legislation put forth by kennedy et al, leading to an uninspiring but functional "balance of mediocrity."
At least voting for the Democrats I know what to expect and it's very unlikely any of my personal freedoms will be eroded away.. unlike with the Conservative Christian Right who wants to tell me what I can and can't do in my own home. In short a vote for McSame is a vote against your own personal freedoms.
Please. In Democrat dominated Illinois my rights are very much under attack by democrats on a monthly basis. And it's not just the 2nd Amendment. This issue is a wash for either party.
Charon
