I know this is gonna go badly

[FLOTSOM]

For the sake of an understanding to all of us not in the know,
"What is the technical definition of a H.O. and at what time in an engagement does it occur?"
i have been accused of hoing when i fire from any forward position of the enemy plane, including from the bottom up the top down steep angles turning in ect.
i have been told that a H.O. can only occur on the initial merge and that after that all is fair when turn fighting, but then Ive been told that its a H.O. no matter when its occurs.
It seems to me that those who complain about the H.O. the most tend to be the ones who change the rules to suit their actions at any given moment. one particular individual got mad at me and accused me be a H.O. (took no offense as i will H.O. if you fly at me firing your guns) when in this particular engagement i fired upon him from a climb and strafed him down the length of the bottom of his plane. then later in the night in another entanglement with this same individual we merged and began a twisting downward spiral he fired upon me on three separate head in passes, to his demise i noticed the ground coming before he did, but when i called him out on his H.O. shots he stated its only a H.O. on the merge.
same individual, next evening, 6 turns into an engagement i put a load of 20mm into his nose and canopy, "YOU F&*&ING HOTARD" is private typed to me.
Will one of you fine marauders of the cartoon air please be gracious enough to lay out what the definition of a H.O. is and what point in a fight it is applicable for those of us not in the know?


(Oh, and just as a p.s., since Ariel combat first began in WWI and right up until the present day, standard military tactics and procedure dictates that when being attacked you should first turn into your enemy, by doing so you shorten the time and firing opportunity your opponent may have, as well as possibly opening an opportunity for you to fire upon him in the merge. So please this is not a "well in WWII" so and so did this or SO and so did that....ect. this is about in game etiquette only.)
Thanx

[Chalenge]

H.O. or 'Head Opposite' is when you are looking behind you and a noob collides with you while trying to get a hit. 

[FLOTSOM]

H.O. or 'Head Opposite' is when you are looking behind you and a noob collides with you while trying to get a hit. 

  GUILTY AS CHARGED

[SHawk]

A HO is when both planes have a firing solution. If only 1 does its a deflection shot.
It really is that simple. 

I use a simple rule in game, avoid all HO attempts from others. After the same plane has tried twice to HO me,
the third time he gets a face full. Kinda like the 3 strikes your out rule.

Personally, if your trying to HO me, your just givin me the inside turn on the next pass. So HO away, it'll just get you killed. Even if you win the HO, chances are your gonna take damage too. So it's a low percentage propostion
at best. Try learning how to pull a guys 6 and then shoot him, it's alot more gratifying.

[BnZ]

(Oh, and just as a p.s., since Ariel combat first began in WWI and right up until the present day, standard military tactics and procedure dictates that when being attacked you should first turn into your enemy, by doing so you shorten the time and firing opportunity your opponent may have, as well as possibly opening an opportunity for you to fire upon him in the merge.

This not directed at you Flotsom, but some people interpret the "turn into the bandit" maxim of ACM to mean "honk around hard and HO" so I felt like it needs addressing.

This image is more representative of the way to "turn into" a bandit attacking with a dive. The defender doesn't really get a guns solution, HO or otherwise, and the attacker gets one that is more liable to hurt his position if he takes it than bring down the defender. (For further edification, watch any Batfink film.)

[Ghosth]

Depends on who you talk to.

The low skill tactic of nose on from 3k out, guns blazing from 1k out is what generated both the name and the stigma attached to it.

A forward quarter shot in the midst of a turn fight is a whole another animal in my opinion.
And should not have the same stigma attached to it, nor the same name as the other.

Call it a hot merge, call it whatever, just don't call it a HO.

[Soulyss]

I think the most common answer you'll receive from most air combat fans is what SHawk describes.  Some of ACM purists may disagree, and in the DA or secluded 1v1 engagement I may agree with them and look only for rear-hemisphere shots.  But in the multi-threat environment I think the definition that both aircraft must have a firing solution is a good middle ground to define a head on scenario.  It satisfies both the challenge and enjoyment of a manuvering engagement and the need to dispatch the oponent at nearly every opportunity to be ready to meet the next threat.  It also has the added benefit of avoiding return fire. 

That's the basic philosphy that I take in most the engagements in the MA, other factors do sometimes come into play that will change my approach, when facing multiple opponents for example I tend to be less selective when I can actually get guns on someone.

[Sloehand]

Try this on for size. 

An HO is when a pilot -- having significant time, speed, energy, position and/or a positive or neutral tactical situation to try and work for any other gun solution -- clearly decides, with intent and malice aforethought, to go for the 0-0 aspect shot.

Lacking (one or more) these positive criteria (especially time or tactical situation), a pilot taking such a shot would be considered taking a clearly respectable angle deflection shot (if slightly off the 0-0 aspect by some degree), or an advantageous and 'unexpected' firing opportunity, even if he was at 0-0 aspect at the moment of the shot.

In other words, if the guy has a calm, not under fire, some distance away moment or two where they could plan and execute any other manuever for a guns solution, but instead just bore in with lethal intent, then that is what I call a HO.

Anything else, is a valid, snap choice, right or wrong.  No fame, no shame.

And in EITHER situation, if you get killed, it's your fault, not the other guys good or bad tactics, lame ACM, or lack thereof.  If it's my definition of an HO, you had time to get out of the way.  If it was anything else, your ACM wasn't good enough at that moment to prevent your dying.  All your own fault.  Live (or die) with it.     

[papa43]

I never HO, I prefer to call it a 360 deg. deflection shot.

[Kuhn]

nevermind

[CAP1]

H.O. or 'Head Opposite' is when you are looking behind you and a noob collides with you while trying to get a hit. 

 

[CAP1]

For the sake of an understanding to all of us not in the know,
"What is the technical definition of a H.O. and at what time in an engagement does it occur?"
i have been accused of hoing when i fire from any forward position of the enemy plane, including from the bottom up the top down steep angles turning in ect.
i have been told that a H.O. can only occur on the initial merge and that after that all is fair when turn fighting, but then Ive been told that its a H.O. no matter when its occurs.
It seems to me that those who complain about the H.O. the most tend to be the ones who change the rules to suit their actions at any given moment. one particular individual got mad at me and accused me be a H.O. (took no offense as i will H.O. if you fly at me firing your guns) when in this particular engagement i fired upon him from a climb and strafed him down the length of the bottom of his plane. then later in the night in another entanglement with this same individual we merged and began a twisting downward spiral he fired upon me on three separate head in passes, to his demise i noticed the ground coming before he did, but when i called him out on his H.O. shots he stated its only a H.O. on the merge.
same individual, next evening, 6 turns into an engagement i put a load of 20mm into his nose and canopy, "YOU F&*&ING HOTARD" is private typed to me.
Will one of you fine marauders of the cartoon air please be gracious enough to lay out what the definition of a H.O. is and what point in a fight it is applicable for those of us not in the know?


(Oh, and just as a p.s., since Ariel combat first began in WWI and right up until the present day, standard military tactics and procedure dictates that when being attacked you should first turn into your enemy, by doing so you shorten the time and firing opportunity your opponent may have, as well as possibly opening an opportunity for you to fire upon him in the merge. So please this is not a "well in WWII" so and so did this or SO and so did that....ect. this is about in game etiquette only.)
Thanx

when you shoot him in the face, and he could've done the same to you it's a ho......any time during the fight.
normally used by score mongers more than anyone.

 one time it is acceptable, is during base defense, as most likely they're gonna be vulching and ho'ing to try n capture.
 i only don't like em as i prefer the "dance" although i generally lose anyway.

[Ghosth]

Sloehand thats a good description in my opinion.

I really agree with the end result, if you could have used ACM, tactics, to avoid his shot, and didn't, and died, well its your mistake then isn't it. So why whine about it?

[CAP1]

A HO is when both planes have a firing solution. If only 1 does its a deflection shot.
It really is that simple. 
now see.....this is where it can actually get UNsimple. 9 out of 10 it seems set up for a ho no matter what i try to do. so i let them get their setup....or so they think. i use a shallow slipping dive to build speed, and hopefully a bit of seperation. last minute, i push the nose over, and they rake me stem to stern. the fact is they were gonna shoot no matter what. that was still a ho, but they'll claim it wasn't as i had no shot on them. again, the fact is i did, and could've continued, but chose to make a vain attempt at having an actual fight, while they took the easy simple way out.

I use a simple rule in game, avoid all HO attempts from others. After the same plane has tried twice to HO me,
the third time he gets a face full. Kinda like the 3 strikes your out rule.

i give em one strike now. if i manage to avoid the first one, i open up on their second attempt.

Personally, if your trying to HO me, your just givin me the inside turn on the next pass. So HO away, it'll just get you killed. Even if you win the HO, chances are your gonna take damage too. So it's a low percentage propostion
at best. Try learning how to pull a guys 6 and then shoot him, it's alot more gratifying.

i had a fight on the deck the other night......started off me in a a6m5b vs a hurri2c. guess what the hurri did? he missed, and next thing i know, there's a 190, another zeke, a spit of some sort, and i think it was a fm2. each and every one of them kept tryin to ho me. to his credit, the fw did manage to set up a decent deflection shot as i was avoiding one of the ho's, but he also left himself open to me as he went by...i got a quick burst, and hit an oil line or something....he was out.....another minute or so, and i lost pieces, and finally hit the dirt.
 friggin 5 guys though, and they all hadda ho.........very very sad........

[Helm]

I have read again and again,  in book after book of first hand accounts  real life pilots taking head on shots.   The fact is that  head on shots are just as much a part of of Air Combat Maneuvers as being on somebodies six. This comunity need to get over it.

I have flown here for 100+ tours and during that time I have tried to stick to this phony chivalry of not firing on HO passes only to get shot down because they did not.  If your opponent has his/her tracers off you have no idea you are being fired upon until you get close enough to see the muzzle flashes.  At this point it is maybe too late.  Also if you try to avoid a Head On pass you are giving up some angle to the enemy, which against an expert pilot maybe all the edge he needs to beat you.

The best advice i can give is the same thing a boxing referee tells you at the beginning of a match... "protect yourself at all times"

To the comunity I say ....."get over it"


Helm ...out