Author Topic: American Civial War  (Read 4970 times)

Offline lazs2

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2008, 02:50:25 PM »
eskimo..  what do you mean?   I think that the reasons our soldiers are fighting in Iraq are pretty much in sync with the reasons our government sent em there.

Can you tell me what you feel are the governments reasons and how they differ from the soldiers?

Even in vietnam... the reasons of the soldiers and the government were in sync.. those that wanted to fight.   

I am not saying that anyone is right or wrong in either case.. just that there is some general agreement on why they are there.

lazs

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2008, 02:57:27 PM »
Short answer, Wrong.  You should have been failed for that paper.  But for the same reason why you think you are right is the same reason we've discussed here.  People can't possibly accept that the answer is as simple as Slavery.  It is not a simplified answer as to why everything happened.

It is that the answer as to why it happened is simple. 



Every single major strife that occured in the US from post Confederacy to the Civil war was because of slavery. 

You are wrong.   
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2008, 03:49:58 PM »
You are wrong.   

Yeah but its the sheer arrogance that accompanies his ridiculous, pontificating, totally unsupported, one liner assertions that is impressive. And it is impressive. I'd bet you could scour the planet and not find one primate even close to LaserSailors talent.

And when the discussion goes Intellectual is when he's most impressive.
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Offline eskimo2

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2008, 04:20:37 PM »
eskimo..  what do you mean?   I think that the reasons our soldiers are fighting in Iraq are pretty much in sync with the reasons our government sent em there.

Can you tell me what you feel are the governments reasons and how they differ from the soldiers?

Even in vietnam... the reasons of the soldiers and the government were in sync.. those that wanted to fight.   

I am not saying that anyone is right or wrong in either case.. just that there is some general agreement on why they are there.

lazs

I think in both the US Civil War and the war in Iraq, you will find soldiers fighting for many reasons: patriotism, valor, excitement, political interests, family military history, “it’s a job”, they were already enlisted, the list goes on…  In the US Civil War, Vietnam, the world wars and other wars, men also were drafted.  Certainly there are some soldiers who have the same beliefs as the government; but the number varies from war to war.  In WWII, I would think that the vast majority of soldiers’ major motivation aligned with the government view.  In the US Civil War, however, I think many soldiers didn’t really want anything to do with it; the New York Draft Riots illustrate this.

Regardless, wars often start with little consideration of what the common man, or soldier, feels is important.  When we ask, “What was the cause of a particular war” we are usually asking why leaders chose to go to war.

I think it’s important to consider what motivated individual soldiers, but that’s really a different question.

The question certainly becomes more important when considering any civil war, however.

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2008, 04:24:06 PM »
Yeah but its the sheer arrogance that accompanies his ridiculous, pontificating, totally unsupported, one liner assertions that is impressive. And it is impressive. I'd bet you could scour the planet and not find one primate even close to LaserSailors talent.

And when the discussion goes Intellectual is when he's most impressive.

Agreed.
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Offline oakranger

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2008, 04:34:31 PM »
Well, everyone has a theory of why the civil war was fought. The most popular, slavery. To the extent, slavery had some parts to do with the war. Other reasons is the south fought over the quesion of states rights. the north, it was to preserve the union. The north was rich and getting all the attention from congress while the south was poor, not getting much attention from washington. Even Mark Twain said it because the south had read too many novels by Sir Walter Scott.  Curlew really brought out the specifics on the subject.

Hear is a little part you may not know. Kansas, basically was the spark that started the war. IN mid 1850, Kansas was to be the next established state . IT had the right to chose as a slave state or not. Missouri, a slave state, didn't want a free slave state to the west.  So out came "Bleeding Kansas". Ranchers and farmers from Missouri terrorized eastern Kansas.  They where called "Missourian Boarder Ruffians". They raided towns and cities (Topeka and Lawrence) to influence Kansas to be a slave state.  There where several attempts of admittance for Kansas to be a slave state or not.  By 1961, Kansas applied for admittance to the Union. However, the proslavery forces in the Senate strongly opposed its free state status, and stalled its admission. IN 1861, after the Confederate states seceded, did the constitution gain approval and Kansas become a state.  Soon after, the war broke out.  

And for more info on the American Civil War.  This web site really covers about everything but they did left out Native American Indians invoment.

 http://www.civilwar.com/
« Last Edit: October 11, 2008, 04:48:20 PM by oakranger »
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Offline bj229r

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2008, 04:55:11 PM »
I eagerly await your next syllable.
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Offline Hangtime

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2008, 05:23:18 PM »

Anyway, let me get to the quesion.  Can you tell me what trigger the American Civial War started?  I know most of the people will say slavery.  Lets see if you are as smart as you think you are.

Sounds like you've had a heluva "cariter".   (wtf??)

I weep for the species.

BTW, the correct short answer is 'states rights'.

carry on.
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Offline Curval

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2008, 05:31:40 PM »
"Small Load" isn't a name I'd go telling people I had.

Just saying...
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Offline Mr No Name

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2008, 05:42:30 PM »
Another great cause of the war was actually an export tariff that the north wanted to charge and the south refused to pay.  Slavery was nothing more than an afterthought issue... But when you lose a war, the truth cannot be found in history books for very long.  Fact is, we never had a president that shredded the constitution more than lincoln, perhaps not since (although a few others have sure tried)  By the way, the civil war is why we dont charge an export tax today.  Here are some of the reasons that cased the war just the basic FACTS:

   1.  First of all coercion in 1861, which was a violation of Article 4. And of course that's where Lincoln tried to coerce the South into fighting and of course into surrendering to him basically.
   2. Lincoln violated the Constitution when he violated the Laws of Neutrality, which was the Trent Affair, Article 6, Clause 2, which was a violation of international law. Now if you don't know what the Trent Affair was, it is very interesting because the Confederate Government had sent some representatives to England to present our cause there before the English Parliament and our Confederate men were on an English ship named the Trent. And the United States government came and took the Confederate men off a British ship and imprisoned them. You say, well, what's so bad about that, because of the laws of Neutrality, and remember the War of 1812 was fought over the same issue because the English was doing that to our citizens. And what happened, the North was humiliated in this. Those men had to be released and William Seward had to write an apology to the English government because the English government would not even negotiate. They said you will either release those men or there is going to be war between you and England as well as the South and England. So, Lincoln when he violated the Constitution in this area, by the way, do you know what he did for the Captain who arrested those men and took them off of the English Ship? He gave him a gold medal. Didn't matter to him that he violated the Constitution.
   3. He suspended the Writ of Habeas Corpus, Article 1, Section 9, Clause 2.
   4. He declared war without the consent of Congress in 1861, which is a violation of Article 1, Section 8, Clause 11 and 12.
   5. He made West Virginia a State in violation of Article 4, Section 3, Clause 1. He just separated Virginia and made West Virginia a State all by himself.
   6. He denied the freedom of speech in the Valandeham Imprisonment, which was a violation of the first Amendment.
   7. He blockaded Ports of the States that were held by the Federal government to still be in the Union. You don't block your own Ports.
   8. The Liberty of the Press was taken away - that is a violation of the First Amendment.
   9. Violation of the Fugitive slave law, which was violation of Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3.


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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2008, 06:11:16 PM »
Well, everyone has a theory of why the civil war was fought. The most popular, slavery. To the extent, slavery had some parts to do with the war. Other reasons is the south fought over the quesion of states rights. the north, it was to preserve the union. The north was rich and getting all the attention from congress while the south was poor, not getting much attention from washington. Even Mark Twain said it because the south had read too many novels by Sir Walter Scott.  Curlew really brought out the specifics on the subject.

Hear is a little part you may not know. Kansas, basically was the spark that started the war. IN mid 1850, Kansas was to be the next established state . IT had the right to chose as a slave state or not. Missouri, a slave state, didn't want a free slave state to the west.  So out came "Bleeding Kansas". Ranchers and farmers from Missouri terrorized eastern Kansas.  They where called "Missourian Boarder Ruffians". They raided towns and cities (Topeka and Lawrence) to influence Kansas to be a slave state.  There where several attempts of admittance for Kansas to be a slave state or not.  By 1961, Kansas applied for admittance to the Union. However, the proslavery forces in the Senate strongly opposed its free state status, and stalled its admission. IN 1861, after the Confederate states seceded, did the constitution gain approval and Kansas become a state.  Soon after, the war broke out.  

And for more info on the American Civil War.  This web site really covers about everything but they did left out Native American Indians invoment.

 http://www.civilwar.com/

Do you realize that I and many others learned about this very issue in or around the 7th grade?    Economics had a bigger part than slavery.
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Offline Maverick

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2008, 06:26:57 PM »
Sounds like you've had a heluva "cariter".   (wtf??)

I weep for the species.

BTW, the correct short answer is 'states rights'.

carry on.

Isn't it incredible Between "sprat" "cariter" and "civial" as well as the unique manner of expressing himself he sounds like a scholar, just like sailor.
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Offline bj229r

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2008, 07:37:06 PM »
Do you realize that I and many others learned about this very issue in or around the 7th grade?    Economics had a bigger part than slavery.
history aint what it used to be....I remember looking at my kid's 9th grade history text....(0went right to WW2)---80% was the Japanese internment camps, atrocities on Jews, and of course, the Bomb
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Offline thrila

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2008, 07:41:21 PM »
"Small Load" isn't a name I'd go telling people I had.

I can't believe i had to wait until the 4th page for someone else to find that funny
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Offline AWMac

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Re: American Civial War
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2008, 09:26:18 PM »
oakranger is funny as hell.

Mac