109 K4 engaging P51's

[BaldEagl]

If they knew what they were doing you should have been dead right away at any alt.  You were lucky to run into three noobs that didn't know wing tactics.

[Masherbrum]

If I see a K4 picking I know what squad they are with.   I have NO PROBLEMS turning either craft.   Sometimes when you "do the unimagineable" you bring with that, an element of surprise which turns the tables in your favor.

I'd put my money on the P-51.   Only way to get "accuracy" in the K4 is to "game the game" and use only Cannon.   I'm sorry, but that is exactly what it is.   It's why I prefer to use the 109F4.   

Flame on, but I call it like I see it, because I did it for about two weeks (a onth or two after it was renamed to the K4) and refuse to do it anymore.   

[moot]

Using only the cannon is gaming the game?

[Steve]

The pony is undermatched against the K4, true. I believe there can be enough of the difference between the pilots that a good 51 stick may be able to prevail.  I'll fight a k4 under any circumstances. I may not win, but I'm not afraid of the odds.

[Anaxogoras]

Steve, you would probably shoot my K4 down in a minute if I engaged your 51 co e.

[Steve]

I dunno.. last time I fought you 1v1 you were in an F8... you were flyin around in that pig and it still took me 15 minutes to get ya. 

[Wmaker]

Only way to get "accuracy" in the K4 is to "game the game" and use only Cannon.   I'm sorry, but that is exactly what it is.

How exactly can firing 30mm cannon only considered gaming the game? Both mgs and cannon were fired using their own triggers so they could easily be fired separately. Also, saying that firing cannon only is the only way to get accuracy with the 30mm isn't true at all either. I know a very succesful 109 stick in the game who fires both mgs and 30mm together and on top of that, has tracers turned off.

[Motherland]

I never use the cannons/MG's separately unless I'm firing only MG's... the tracer streams are easily distinguishable from each other and there's a nice red fireball that lets you know when you hit with the 30mm as opposed to one of the 13mm's.

[Becinhu]

It's more rewarding to get down in the weeds with a Tempest, turn fight and actually manage to leave intact and with kills. Or BnZ with an a6m2...
But I'm also a confirmed headcase...
 

[Masherbrum]

How exactly can firing 30mm cannon only considered gaming the game? Both mgs and cannon were fired using their own triggers so they could easily be fired separately. Also, saying that firing cannon only is the only way to get accuracy with the 30mm isn't true at all either. I know a very succesful 109 stick in the game who fires both mgs and 30mm together and on top of that, has tracers turned off.

There is a HUGE difference in accuracy using both methods.   Try it yourself.   

It IS gaming the game.   It would be another thing if you use your MG's to get a read on the Con and follow suit with cannon.   

I know folks would get pissed, but sometimes the truth hurts.   

[Wmaker]

There is a HUGE difference in accuracy using both methods.   Try it yourself.   

It IS gaming the game.   It would be another thing if you use your MG's to get a read on the Con and follow suit with cannon.   

I know folks would get pissed, but sometimes the truth hurts.   

Pissed? Hehe, why would anyone be pissed? And who in your opinion got pissed because of your comment in this thread so far?

There just isn't any logic in your argument.

Yes, there are a lot of firing situations where there's a difference in accuracy but saying that firing cannon only is "the only way to get accuracy" is not true, and that is what you claimed at first. But most of the time, at least the firing positions I try to get to when using 30mm, there really wouldn't be much difference if I was firing 30mm only or all guns or if I would have tracers on or not. At point blank range those things mentioned don't really matter. Most of the time with the 30mm I try to setup snap shots where the target flies through my gunsite at about 20-150 yards at very high deflection angles. At situations like that the firing time is so short that you have no time to correct your aim anyway. On straight 6 shots with 200-300 ranges, yes it is best to fire cannon only so you can use its tracers as a guide.

Again, I repeat, saying that firing the 30mm only is "gaming the game" makes no sense. The real plane had one trigger for mgs and one for the cannon, it is actually more "unrealistic" to fire both using the same trigger since there normally were no such trigger in the real plane.

[Masherbrum]

Pissed? Hehe, why would anyone be pissed? And who in your opinion got pissed because of your comment in this thread so far?

There just isn't any logic in your argument.

Yes, there are a lot of firing situations where there's a difference in accuracy but saying that firing cannon only is "the only way to get accuracy" is not true, and that is what you claimed at first. But most of the time, at least the firing positions I try to get to when using 30mm, there really wouldn't be much difference if I was firing 30mm only or all guns or if I would have tracers on or not. At point blank range those things mentioned don't really matter. Most of the time with the 30mm I try to setup snap shots where the target flies through my gunsite at about 20-150 yards at very high deflection angles. At situations like that the firing time is so short that you have no time to correct your aim anyway. On straight 6 shots with 200-300 ranges, yes it is best to fire cannon only so you can use its tracers as a guide.

Again, I repeat, saying that firing the 30mm only is "gaming the game" makes no sense. The real plane had one trigger for mgs and one for the cannon, it is actually more "unrealistic" to fire both using the same trigger since there normally were no such trigger in the real plane.

95% of the time a WWII pilot used MG's to gauge convergence.   The same cannot be said in here, so again think as you wish.   

[Wmaker]

95% of the time a WWII pilot used MG's to gauge convergence.   The same cannot be said in here, so again think as you wish.   

¨
Hehe, I'd say 95% of the time pilots used MGs to shoot holes into the enemy weather it was a plane, locomotive, enemy soldier or a cow. And a lot less than 5% of the cases their were used for something else. One of these rarer cases would be Finnish pilots who hunted moose with Brewsters. I'm sure the moose thought they were gaiming the game too since they only fired as short burst as possible with the .30 cal and didn't fire the .50 cals at them at all to preserve the meat!       

[moot]

I still don't get it. They had separate controls too, what's gamey?

[RMrider]

I use only my 30mm until im out of ammo then i use the MGs when im saddled up and pour it on until they go down. I too fly with tracers off.