• [MoM] "Aluminum Overcast" AAR •

[GREric]

Yes i can offically tell you that were going to sponcer somthing very simular to this. Cant let you Rooks have all the fun missions.

[MjTalon]

Good. Gives me a chance to hop back into my 109

[camnite]

just tryin to come up with new ideas delta. anyways the fightin red devils of the 40fs will be there next time u do a MoM
had a blast never seen so many planes before

[96Delta]

A new plan has been hatching in
my fertile and troubled mind even
as we speak.   

I plan to put alot more effort into the
next one with detailed instructions for
the escorts and bombers.

Things will only improve with time..
I'm just hoping that people will be
patient and help us to improve the experience
for the bomber pilots.  I think that is
where more work is needed.

[GREric]

I just have to come up with a good Joint Command name, or maybe i should just use your but put a Bishop at the front. So Bish Join Operation Command, Massive Online Mission? o.O idn just thinkin.  

[Rich46yo]

Yep, once again, I'll say it was a big success. Its very difficult for a C/O to keep operationally aware and coordinate all those other airplanes. I try to help by staying totally off the comms unless theres a drastic need and just using the type comms. Also when I type a comm I try and word it that the C/O doesn't feel the need to respond in anyway. He has enough going on. We had a saying in USAF I'm sure Delta remembers. "Either Lead, Follow, or, Get out of the way."

Actually the comms for the 47s were really good. Had the elements been able to form up correctly I think we would have taken out some targets.

But the main thing is to try and support the C/O. I really didn't see anyone in Talens flight go off willy-nilly on his own to get kills and say "the heck with the bombers". I was with em almost to the end but got ganged with damage and had to dive out.

These are really fun events no matter what side your on. Big, Historically correct, bombers missions are the cats arse. When I saw all those 47s, 51s, 17s, mixing it up with the Luftwaffe it looked pretty awesome.

[jammerz]

   Great Job Delta!  http://home.alltel.net/wkunkle/b17intro.html One of our Sky KNights actually flew on the Aluminum Overcast several years ago.  Check out the photos on the link!

[Chilli]

Excellent Mission MoM    Thanks 96Delta and everyone for putting it together. 

Sorry, I had to run out to work so wasn't around for the debrief.  I had fun, and hopefully so did my wingman Nestle   

Feedback:

• B17s alt could be increased with rolling 50 percent fuel
• Rolling farther back in Rook territory prevents ducking in tower to prevent mission exposure on the runway
• Loose the Drop Tanks on the Ponies (didn't realize they were attached until I reviewed film  )
• Most of all keep doing this, it was a riot!

[zoozoo]

I would say the mission was not really a "success", a quarter of the buffs bade it to our first target, it was really fun though.

Delta, it think next time we get a early ralley point and more assigned small squad leaders for our fighter groups.
And also, try to get some recomended bomber formations because the stragglers got torn apart.

[Anaxogoras]

Zoozoo, why were you so low and separated from the rest of the bombers?  I found your B-17 single and low.

[AKHog]

I had a great time fighting my way in and out of the 'box'.

Summary of my flight: we got big warnings on country channel early on. I upped 47n with DTs with some squades and we found a buff formation escorted by ponies way out over the water. The 51s were already engaged with a few friendlies and it was not an issue reaching the buffs, which weren't even that high when we met them (wish I brought less fuel!). I damaged 2-3 b17s before I lost a wing in 'the box'. Next I upped a 109 and easily climbed back up to the fight. At this point the ponies were actually flying even with the b17s, but seem more interested in fur balling than protecting, so again its easy to walk into the box. I again wound some 17's before I am chased down to the deck by a pony. By the time he got close enough to see he still had both of his drop tanks on I decided it was probably safe to make a move an sure enough it was an easy kill (pony seemed heavy). I rtb and up another 109 only to make it in time to help finish off the last b17s over the target. The best part was having some great 1v1 and 2v1 with the leftover bish that came to help defend. Can't remember names but <S> to whoever it was, great high energy high altitude fighting 190s and 109s.

Things that would have made it better from the rooks side: Buffs didn't have nearly enough alt. Most* ponies didn't do a good job of protecting buffs, seemed more interested in kills (can't comment on the jugs, I was fighting the other group). It would have been a good idea to do a big fighter sweep before the buffs roll in, the ponies would be perfect for this. Even better have some of the ponies take out dar at fields along the bombers route. Better yet roll a smallish 234 mission to take out enmy bar dar/hq, then up buffs deep over homeland, climb to 25k+ and then meet up with the escorts closer to front lines.

As for the knights, even though some of the buffs made it to target I think overall the knights kicked ass. The shear amount of people on during TT added to the huge warnings from dar, the low buffs didn't stand a chance.

*while it was obvious most of the pony drivers didn't understand how to properly protect a bomber group, there were a few I noticed on the 2nd and 3rd flight that were still close and above the buffs chasing away some attackers, however by then there were just too few left.

[MajIssue]

<Salute> to the rooks who participated! SoonerMP and I upped to check out the action... We are Bishops and flew 4 sectors to intercept the mission. I encountered a Rook pony at 25K above 111 (I was in a 190A8) made a couple of passes, never fired a shot, and extended to escape the third HO and climb when a couple of knight 152s jumped me. My squaddie was in a 262 and sent one ot the 152s to the tower. I dove with the pony in tow with a 152 on HIS 6. We went from 27K to 100' in less than 2 minutes! So much for staying with the mission. I was running out of fuel by this point and RTB'd on the deck. The 152 engaged the pony and cleared my 6 (TY Knight 152 whoever you were).  

I hate to talk up (not really) the Bish, but ThundrEgg runs mass buff missions regularly with great success...

Not completely obliterating your targets would rank your bomber's success as marginal at best, considering the sheer volume of ord you dropped. How many guys dropped on rubble while there were live targets available? Bottom line: 3 boxes of B-17s can completely flatten ANY strat target if the bombs are dropped accurately, there is good coordination between pilots and the optimum bomb load is selected.

Please don't construe my comments as "flaming" the rook buff missions in any way. The effort in planning and getting the turn out you got was laudable! IMO, If your escorts had performed as they should have, you would have had a greater degree of bombing success and lower losses among your Buff drivers.

 

[Chilli]

Maybe a little backwards approach, but here it goes anyhow.

• Bomber command  Officers' communication on chosen VOX channel, CO's of the Fighter Wings also on that VOX.  Bombers pilots' communication on range channel.
• FW CO's listen to Bomber Command and relay orders over TEXT (separate channel) to FWs.
• The Fighter Wing pilots form wingman groups and each group picks a channel (they will not listen or talk on Bomber Command VOX).
• TEXT chat by others than CO's disallowed (other than range).
• In case CO goes down, he will join as gunner or a member of the FW.
• If CO gets discoed, his #1 wingman tunes to Command VOX and assumes duties until Chain of Command is restored (CO re logs).

         

If done properly, range chat is reduced, Chain of Command is clear, Wingmen work together as mini units within the furball, clearing 6's, identifying threats, and maintaining awareness of escort duties.

I can not emphasize WINGMEN enough and a clear Chain of Command.   Chain of Command was executed very well last night, and I had an excellent wingman (thank you Nestle and others). Just taking an opportunity to improve on our stregnths.

[Spikes]

Also, I'd like to state some thoughtful words for the escort fighters next time we fly MoM:

• 25th fighter Wing Accounted for 17 destroyed and damaged enemy 262s.
• Our Kill to death Ratio was indeed higher than the 11th Fighter Wing's
• Our communication was somewhat choppy, but it was enough to keep everyone on there toes
• Our teamwork & disciplined really came out last night. P47 pilots understood the instructions i gave
  them and executed them flawlessly, couldn't have asked anything better.
• The P47D has 33% more firepower than the P51D, you do the math 
• Your chances of surviving a mission of that caliber with Talen as CO has just increased 99.9%... 
  

Fly 25th Fighter Wing! 

Don't fly with that idiot! Who are you kidding?

<S> Talen, I've never had any more fun flying with you than anyone else. You know how to make the game come alive.

[MjTalon]

If your escorts had performed as they should have, you would have had a greater degree of bombing success and lower losses among your Buff drivers.

 

We were intercepted on climbout sir. The fight started about 4 sectors from target. We were already at 22k with 25-35k bandits overhead diving on us. Bombers were at 15k and still climbing. This was a Beta frame sir and we are already aware of the problems that occured and we plan to have a outstanding second MoM.

Don't take this as a rant sir, I'm just stating the obvious. And the P47s ( My fighter Wing ) did there job to the fullest of our abilities with lesser numbers than the 11th FW ( P51s ) And achieved a great K/D and survival ratio.