Author Topic: Why overshooting is to be avoided.  (Read 2681 times)

Offline Murdr

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2008, 05:08:49 PM »
So if I might have a reputation in the MA as a gentleman and good opponent to come across. But simply not agreeing or being interested in the DA with it's set rules and instead preferring the more open arena of the MA for duels that makes me an arse in the communities view?

According to the Training Corp? Or is that just your opinion?


<S>...-Gixer

Not what he said at all. "If" you agree to rules then do not abide by them, then you will be stoned sayeth the masses. If you don't agree to any rules then expect nothing in return. If you free-form in the MA there is nothing wrong with that.....

Personally I don't go into the DA either but I have no problem with those that do...
I think Shuff pretty much summed it up.

Offline uberslet

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2008, 05:26:48 PM »
Wrong... goes back to what they were saying about rules. If you climb above the agreed merge, even though your co-alt at the merge, all your doing is conceding the other guy is much better than you. That is not a "trick" as you call it. It is simply a method used by a weaker cartoon pilot to give him a chance in the fight. A person using that method to cover his inabilities or weaknesses might get along fine for awhile... till caught. Then no matter what they do in the future, they'll always be stuck with the moniker of "weak pilot"or of "one not to be trusted".
i used to do, as for your reasons stated. i would climb up higher, then dive down hoping to have more E, and go verticle longer than the other, but it didnt work that way; and i just thought to myself "i wont get any better by being a cheap shot, i may as well grit my teeth and try the honest way", and i have gotten much better. as sonicblu said, the rules are to handicap the weaker player, it handicaps them to some extent, but take them out 4 or 5 months later and see if they are as handicapped. 20 bucks says that they will have more skill and sense of ACM, so they will do better, even if its not a whole lot, they will do better.  :salute
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Offline jerkins

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2008, 05:27:21 PM »
Gixer, thanks for the entertainment. I havent laughed like that in a long time.
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Offline hubsonfire

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2008, 07:01:54 PM »
The insistence that a co alt, co E, same plane/load out duel is a handicap is driving me nuts. Your skill level is your handicap (that, and your attitude). Pretty gunsight colors, fancy stick setups/scalings, being a pansie and disregarding the rules in a structured duel... these do not make you a better cartoon pilot. These are obstacles in your way, and opportunities to find excuses for your inability to compete, while ignoring the simple fact that you just aren't as good as the other guy.

This attitude that a fair fight is to be avoided at all costs explains a lot about gameplay in the arenas.
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Offline Murdr

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2008, 07:42:28 PM »
The insistence that a co alt, co E, same plane/load out duel is a handicap is driving me nuts.

I saw the BS meter spike several dozen krusties on that point myself.

Offline Widewing

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2008, 09:01:46 PM »
Widewing,

I'm not repeating myself again over a thread and episode that was months ago, if you like link the old thread and post the film then do it, and if you post the film post it from the start and post it in a new thread so it isn't lost in this one.. But remember the challenge you gave out was a open one no communication was ever given prior about DA rules especially one with reduced range of 1.5k.

It is hilarious that you think I used F3 in the DA, and hilarious that I would use it in a Yak out of all planes in the set. What on earth advantage would I gain from using F3 in a Yak when it is the only plane in the game that has a better view looking backwards then forwards?

As for the "he won't duel" that's also ridiculous, no I won't in the DA under your long list of rules but if you want to again in the MA with no rules I will any time. Like I do against many others who specifically go out looking for duels against me. If you want to do the same, do so and fly what ever you want. You can post those films as well.

I know you like to think of the DA as your personal sandpit but it doesn't interest me and never has.

Now F3 in the MA for buffs is one of the longest going cheats that's ever been in AH, using F3 for gunning instead of dropping into turrets, but now seeing it being used in the A20 is something else. IMHO the F3 view should of been dumped long ago.

While I respect the information,training and time you put towards this community I'm not some two month newbie or one of your groupies, if your going to make claims about me then go for it. But one of Timid and "he won't duel" won't stick.

And thanks for the new sig.


<S>...-Gixer

I didn't say DA, did I? It was in the TA, and you used it any time you lost sight of me. Again, not an issue, I used it too. Not to fight, but to track you as you extended halfway to New Zealand.

I've watched the films you posted to the Help and Training forum. Generally, what you are offering is lessons on picking guys occupied in a fight, or helpless noobs with zero skill. http://files.filefront.com/Gixer+Yak+9Tzip/;11571402;/fileinfo.html If you want to see a high order of skill, watch this film instead: http://www.4shared.com/file/67039966/d872b91a/Phew.html

The fact is, unless forced upon you, you will not engage without a significant advantage in altitude or speed. Even with every advantage, your timidity undoes you on occasion. http://www.mediafire.com/?2ww5nidmyi5 I have no idea what BillyD was doing much of the time, other than begging to get clobbered. I can say that there was enough suckage there to vacuum pack the Mall of America.

You cannot deny that the reason you won't duel is that a duel means equality at the outset. Equality in your case means taking the risk of getting your clock cleaned, which is something you apparently can't handle. You could always put the suicide hotline on speed dial, or you could accept the fact that getting beat is nothing more than part of the learning process.

You don't like rules because rules would highlight your shortcomings. We wouldn't think less of you for that. Your issue is that you seem unable deal with it on your own level.

So, inasmuch as rules make you uncomfortable, how about a duel with just one rule. One teensie, weensie, little rule. Shouldn't be too tough, right?

You can't fight this duel in the DA, so it would be in the TA. We go to a large field. We each take an aircraft. You can fly your Yak-9T. I'll take something less sprightly. Let's say.... A Boston Mk.III or if you prefer, some comparable fighter like a P-39Q or even the -9T, okay? Any fuel load you want is fine. We spawn on opposite runways and get the engines running. On a given signal, we roll, passing as we take off. upon reaching the end of the runway, we reverse. Okay, now comes the one rule... You cannot leave the horizontal boundaries of the airfield (the outer taxiways). Cage Match!!!!

Anyone who flies outside the boundary loses by default.

One simple, easy to understand rule. There should be no confusion or miscommunication.

Should be a no-brainer, right?

Since there's no gun lethality in the TA, winning is based upon how many times one gets hosed, or augers, or throws a hissy-fit and logs off.

Should you do well, I'll tip my hat to you. Should you not do well, I'll still tip my hat to you. Indeed, should you let yourself go, be a wild child, throw caution to the winds, you might even have fun. What's the worst that could happen? You break a few cartoon airplanes, right? Not to worry, the HTC Xerox machine will spit 'em out as fast as they get wrecked.


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Banshee7

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2008, 09:15:16 PM »
umm......PWNED!!! :)   #S# WW
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Offline Bronk

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2008, 09:28:45 PM »

 :rofl
See Rule #4

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #68 on: November 05, 2008, 12:34:48 AM »
Nevermind
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 12:44:25 AM by BaldEagl »
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline Gixer

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #69 on: November 05, 2008, 12:54:45 AM »
Widewing,

No problem, on the large field idea in the TA.

As you offered Yak-9Ts it is.

1. 25% Fuel

2. Taters only MG hit counts for nothing.

3. No F3 views or any other TA training aids.

Otherwise as descirbed from takeoff and within horizontal boundaries of the airfield. What is it most hit's with the 37mm wins? Auger counts as a kill or reset?

After that we can do DA if time persists, you fly what ever you like and I'll continue with the Yak-9T normal DA rules but you have to destroy the other aircraft to claim a win, damaged doesn't count.

Post the films in a new thread afterwards others can decide for themselves.

Again time differences, I should be available from this Thursday evening your time through the weekend.


<S>...-Gixer
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 01:40:41 AM by Gixer »

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #70 on: November 05, 2008, 08:45:52 AM »
i used to do, as for your reasons stated. i would climb up higher, then dive down hoping to have more E, and go verticle longer than the other, but it didnt work that way; and i just thought to myself "i wont get any better by being a cheap shot, i may as well grit my teeth and try the honest way", and i have gotten much better. as sonicblu said, the rules are to handicap the weaker player, it handicaps them to some extent, but take them out 4 or 5 months later and see if they are as handicapped. 20 bucks says that they will have more skill and sense of ACM, so they will do better, even if its not a whole lot, they will do better.  :salute

I see your point but I disagree. If there are no rules the individual will handicap himself. Most will climb to what he hopes is a higher alt.... in doing so he will not meet another opponent on an even playing field. This means he will improve very little because improvement is not required if all you do is fight from advantage.


Oh the cage fights sound fun. Should be good for alot of laughs too. No matter who fights who.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 08:49:53 AM by Shuffler »
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Offline Shane

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #71 on: November 05, 2008, 09:55:46 AM »
ya'll should bring your "seconds" to .join your opponent.   :noid


this applies to anyone who feels they can't trust the other party's integrity in the arranged DA engagement.


nothing surprises me at the lengths poepl go to gain an edge in a duel, especially same plane co-alt, yadda yadda.   these would include:

taking less than agreed upon fuel (actually 25% is enough for any plane, but i don't mind higher loads as they reflect the MA performance - all about trusting the other guy)

alting out of range and diving in

coming in higher than agreed upon

dumping ammo on takeoff


<meh>  it's all about integrity and communicating the actual RoE before taking off.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #72 on: November 05, 2008, 12:46:16 PM »
ya'll should bring your "seconds" to .join your opponent.   :noid

A lot consider having an observer is cheating in a duel for some reason.  Frankly, I would rather have an observer to the duel join my plane than buzzing around the fight in a plane.


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Offline leitwolf

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #73 on: November 05, 2008, 01:07:24 PM »
While we are on the topic of duels:
I'm not in the DA very often and have a question: is a front quarter shot (which the other will perceive as a HO, even if i have few degrees advantage and can shoot earlier) fair game in duels?
I'm talking after the initial merge.
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Offline Shane

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Re: Why overshooting is to be avoided.
« Reply #74 on: November 05, 2008, 01:53:39 PM »
A lot consider having an observer is cheating in a duel for some reason.  Frankly, I would rather have an observer to the duel join my plane than buzzing around the fight in a plane.


ack-ack

you misunderstood...  my second joins his plane... the action will be much too fast paced after merge for a rider to be of any tactical assistance. prevents pre-merge shenigans.

yeah, i hate people flying close to watch, it *is* distracting... use /.join or god's eye mode.


Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.