After 9 years...

[bongaroo]

I suspect any  "ELITE ARENA" would be filled with the old EGO heads for about 3 days, Then after they find it hard to dominate cause so many will be at their skill level, most would gravitate back to the MA, all the while citing that the new elite arena is lame. The reality is you superheros are finding it hard to dominate as you once did cause the population has grown---> good for HTC. Whether you admit it or not you want your name in lights and also want to be recognised as being the top echelon! Unfortunately the only way for this, is to have a good score, but you are unwilling to perform all the anoying little tasks required to do so! Hmm maybe Brett Favre could win the superbowl all by himself,--> NOT! it takes a vast support system where even a lowly water boy is needed! My point being, if you want to be recognised in this system then do the things required, otherwise stop yammering already 

I'm really quite sad for you guys actually, the game is still fun to me, I'm not good enough to be bored yet and many fights are a challenge and quite exhilerating at times, probably much the way you felt back in the day! I think the game is probably the same as it always was, but your skills are higher but not high enough to overcome #s, and when you're found to be in an area your gonna be a target, everyone wants to eliminate the top dogs even if it is dweebery! I find myself being targeted allot, this is the way I like it as the few victorys are that much sweeter, a few rantings on 200 and I'm guaranteed some ganging attention even from the chivalrous superheros 

Watch out for that chip on your shoulder...

[shreck]

Watch out for that chip on your shoulder...

There is NO chip! I have been ganged, picked, hoed, and vulched by the elite sticks more times than I can count, I am just shedding an alternate light on this subject---> that it just may not be the community, and the issues may reside in ones self.  Lets be clear--> I have also ganged, picked, vulched, and oh yes hoed, but I am not part of the "whoa is me, rules should be the same except for me" crowd! I am very perplexed why finding a good fight is so hard  just ask over ch200 and ye shall recieve, or how about this---> pool a few folks together to meet say in DA at a certain time and bash each other to death!    A little effort just might go a long way    An elite arena!<--- honestly, just how big are your heads ? 

[bongaroo]

If I've learned anything from your recent posts its that you:

"have been ganged, picked, hoed, and vulched"

a lot.

Any reason you need to repeat that over and over?

"elite sticks" is obviously a perspective thing.  I can't really name one stick that I consider a strong veteran that gangs, picks, HO's, or vulches consistantly or repeatedly.  Who do you consider an "elite stick"?

An elite arena!<--- honestly, just how big are your heads ?

How would the proposed arena be elite (since your the one calling it that)?  Is membership limited?  Do you need to pass a test to get in?

I think you should read again what was suggested.  An arena that focuses on the combat.  Not on NOE misshuns attempting to avoid combat, not on porking for whatever reason, but on the combat.  People provided reasons why the DA and AvA are not the answer.  With the recent addition of multiple special events arenas we can obviously deduce that adding an arena is not a difficult task for HTC.

Are you going to provide a good reason why the proposed arena is a bad idea besides "it's for the elite" or "thats what the DA is for!"?  I hope so and look forward to your response.

[humble]

I suspect any  "ELITE ARENA" would be filled with the old EGO heads for about 3 days, Then after they find it hard to dominate cause so many will be at their skill level, most would gravitate back to the MA, all the while citing that the new elite arena is lame. The reality is you superheros are finding it hard to dominate as you once did cause the population has grown---> good for HTC. Whether you admit it or not you want your name in lights and also want to be recognised as being the top echelon! Unfortunately the only way for this, is to have a good score, but you are unwilling to perform all the anoying little tasks required to do so! Hmm maybe Brett Favre could win the superbowl all by himself,--> NOT! it takes a vast support system where even a lowly water boy is needed! My point being, if you want to be recognised in this system then do the things required, otherwise stop yammering already 

I'm really quite sad for you guys actually, the game is still fun to me, I'm not good enough to be bored yet and many fights are a challenge and quite exhilerating at times, probably much the way you felt back in the day! I think the game is probably the same as it always was, but your skills are higher but not high enough to overcome #s, and when you're found to be in an area your gonna be a target, everyone wants to eliminate the top dogs even if it is dweebery! I find myself being targeted allot, this is the way I like it as the few victorys are that much sweeter, a few rantings on 200 and I'm guaranteed some ganging attention even from the chivalrous superheros 

Since I'm the one who started this thread i'll take this as being aimed at me...

I'm amazed at your comments but I also see you as a "victim". Way back when we had a pretty good fight (your ki-84 vs my spit9) and you were well on your way to developing some extraordinary skills. More and more guys just like you are "giving in" and "doing what it takes" {which I define as porking, picking, vulching and milkrunning}. So we have a whole new generation that are defining progress by an artificial standard IMO. I never said that I'm "elite" or that this was an arena aimed for uber sticks. Simply one that put the focus on air to air and ground combat without forcing "all the little things" that you feel are essential to getting ahead that I feel detract from the spirit of the game.

Personally I have no interest in getting my name in "lights" because the criteria for achieving those goals are both laughably easy and pitifully misguided. My perspective is that air combat is not really a "team game" beyond a few people at most. when you read the comments of fighter pilots on all sides it's clear that within the broader melee this is a individual endeavor with minimal mention of even a wingman. Personally my choice of planes makes it almost impossible to "dominate" any arena let alone survive even a significant % of my hops. So what do I fly for, that individual encounter where I get a chance to be "the man in the arena"


The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat .

All I want is that "arena" unmarred by artificial rules or contrivances. I'm not seeking to limit plane choice or create forced rules of engagement or legislate "fair" fights. I simply want to remove the artificial attributes of the current system that diminish the possibilities.

By circumstance I happened across four fights that highlight what I'm talking about over the weekend. In one instance I encountered a well known (almost always top 5 overall, top 10 fighter score) foe in one of his fighters of choice co-alt in my A-20 and beat him even up in a dueling style fight. that doesnt mean i'd beat him every time or that i'm a better pilot. But in that moment at that time in a even fight vs a worthy opponent I won. All in all I was 2-2 in my A-20 in those fights...but all the time was really to find those 4 "moments in the arena".

Just like one day long ago when I found you in Ki and afterward you commented that it was one of the best fights you'd ever had. So while more and more folks like yourself seem to feel that the measure of a man is defined by a willingness to "do what it takes" to meet an artificial standard all I want is the chance to earn the respect of the the other "man in the arena"

[avionix]

Now despite all this, I would still choose this new ACM arena over all others. I would get hammered, time and time and time again, but I would learn what I like, a nice ACM fight.

But the main fact is even if you gain the upper hand in any fight, the other guy is going to take whatever advantage to get the upper hand back or win the fight.  Many times that will include a HO or other tactics that many of you find annoying.  I know I find it annoying.  What are they supposed to do?  Die like a man?  Come on.  This is a game.  

As stated before, why don't you guys try to improve the game play of us newer guys rather than rant about how the game is "not like it used to be."  You threw this idea out the window like an empty soda cup.  Why not implement a system if mentoring to help the newer pilots achieve a higher level that you would seem to enjoy.  Along the way, you may find that the skill increases and dweebery diminishes.

[pervert]

But the main fact is even if you gain the upper hand in any fight, the other guy is going to take whatever advantage to get the upper hand back or win the fight.  Many times that will include a HO or other tactics that many of you find annoying.  I know I find it annoying.  What are they supposed to do?  Die like a man?  Come on.  This is a game.  

This would be a simple conformation that they where in the wrong arena.

[avionix]

This would be a simple conformation that they where in the wrong arena.

Why?  If we are "simulating" war, aren't we supposed to put it all out on the table?

[humble]

But the main fact is even if you gain the upper hand in any fight, the other guy is going to take whatever advantage to get the upper hand back or win the fight.  Many times that will include a HO or other tactics that many of you find annoying.  I know I find it annoying.  What are they supposed to do?  Die like a man?  Come on.  This is a game.  

As stated before, why don't you guys try to improve the game play of us newer guys rather than rant about how the game is "not like it used to be."  You threw this idea out the window like an empty soda cup.  Why not implement a system if mentoring to help the newer pilots achieve a higher level that you would seem to enjoy.  Along the way, you may find that the skill increases and dweebery diminishes.

Many of us do offer help (I spent a tour as a trainer and still help out anyone who asks). Feel free to fly with us (71 Squadron) anytime you want to come to the dark side for a day (we fly knight, vox 171). The HO is much rarer then expected (most HO's really aren't) and if you are in control of a fight learning to not offer a "50/50" shot is part of the learning process. However in a fight vs a known enemy most of us will not fire when if a true HO occurs. I'll pass on anything close to a HO. At the same time I'm not going to let an unknown get around on me from an inferior position. A lot of the time when i'm accused of a HO it is a pure canopy shot on a guy trying to push a losing position. In effect he's forcing me to decide between killing him or abandoning both angular and Energy advantage while giving him a belly shot of some type. Most people who complain about post merge "HO's" are just darwin award winners in the making IMO.

[mechanic]

mulli got me up and running snap, so stop bashing your head against this brick wall and come to DA to find me I'm logging on in 5 mins.

S!

[shreck]

My reference to " ELITE" was brought on by others in this thread before me! Scroll back and you shall see! My post is certainly not a bash at you snap, as you are one of the guys in here I actually admire as much as one can over the binary of the internet! So if it came off that way to you, then I----> apologise! I see the "old days are gone" threads as nothing more than old hatters not willing to change the changes in aces high in my perspective are good! More peeps means more $ for more changes and on and on! So many new folks brings many many more challenges to staff and players alike, Everyone started as NOOB and cuts their teeth in pretty much the same schedule.
The statement you made of not being a dominent force in the arena rings hollow snap!! and most would agree you are a killer! (sometimes modesty is transparent)  
Now as far as me giving in to something--> I have no idea what you are infering, if it is that you think I'm a toolshedder please look again as this is not the case. If you believe I avoid the confrontation, again please rethink this as I won't avoid any 1v1 and consistently go to the locations where I here the great sticks are at! I also consistently defend bases as this is a "no effort" way to get into some action quickly! Again I am quite confused about the inability to get in a good fight, It was quite simple for me to text BiPolar for some 262 fun at a certain area, the fights were clean, fair and quite fun, although I got spanked it was enjoyable. My point is this--> getting into a good fight just isn't that hard, a small amount of management and commitment will insure success! I remember our fights that you mentioned and they were quite fun, and I have plenty of them nowadays also. So if I have given in to the mob mentality or am lame in other ways please elaborate. Again my intention was not to offend you snap! so I hope you will look at this a bit differently !  <S>

[mechanic]

Shreck.....i think what you dont get is that snap will never consider having his name in lights or on the front page as 'success' in this game.

maybe im an old 'hatter'

 

[humble]

Shreck,

you and I have never had cross words and your always a great fight. I was and am simply trying to suggest an alternative arena that doesnt force "all the little things". I wasnt in anyway attempting to call you or anyone else who can and does adjust to the current realities "lame". What I was commenting on is that I do think that you (and and a lot of others) have had your approach to the game altered by "the system". I know your not a toolshedder or a score monkey...but I think you are effected by the system itself. I finished you off once over the weekend, you were in a hog and being ganged...now I'd been ganged back by the carrier and was going back out and swooped you to avoid having you behind me. So here we were, both fighting the red in a sea of green...but going out to fight while alot of our countrymen stayed in the safety of numbers. Literally half the sector was a gang one way while the other half was reversed. Thats what I'm trying to "fix"...

But trust me no offense was intended in my comments I have nothing but respect for you as a player/person. It's the way a lot of guys like you have evolved as a response TO the game

[shreck]

WELL in that case, how about a ladder arena where the best can be revealed and challenged!! An ongoing revolving ladder tournament that brings out the best, with dissimilar planes if desired,  gentlemens rules and above all  NO HOing 

 

[mechanic]

its not always about winning or proving who is best ya know..

[The Fugitive]

HTC has already said he won't add an arena for fighters only, or one for land grabbers only. So that leads us back to adjusting play. Some  of us don't care about points, or our name in lights, but if we use that to lead the "quake" style players to fly a sim instead of playing quake. Is there anoter way other than adjusting scoring to lead "gamers" that way?