BoB deisgn change suggestions

[Kermit de frog]

There are many pilots in AH that love to be bomber pilots.
Being a good bomber pilot requires making good decisions well in advance.

Fighter pilots can make quick decisions, and if wrong, can abandon their decision quickly, while a bomber pilot must make decisions well in advance, and have to be willing to follow through, even in the face of strong adversity.

[Brooke]

Yep, I like flying fighters or bombers in scenarios.  They are both fun but totally different experiences with a different skill set required.  We seem to get a reasonable number of bombers up in scenarios.

[Guppy35]

There are many pilots in AH that love to be bomber pilots.
Being a good bomber pilot requires making good decisions well in advance.

Fighter pilots can make quick decisions, and if wrong, can abandon their decision quickly, while a bomber pilot must make decisions well in advance, and have to be willing to follow through, even in the face of strong adversity.

Being a fighter pilot in a scenario requires saving bomber pilots.  Talk about work

[Delirium]

Being a fighter pilot in a scenario requires saving bomber pilots. 

From what everyone tells me, we fly bombers. Isn't that enough?

[Beefcake]

As a dedicated bomber pilot, and a buff group leader for BoB 2006 & 2008, I'd like to throw in some suggestions.

1. Bombers should do more carpet bombing rather than pin point bombing. What I mean by this is Britain needs more targets that are huge, like the CT cities. We also need factories for targets like an "aircraft" factory or pilot training fields. The idea here is to give the Luftwaffe KG squads more targets so that they will be spending all 4 frames bombing. Also I would suggest changing airfield scoring to where airfields are closed by the number of ordnance dropped on the field itself. This is the way it was done in Africa Korps and I kinda like it, it's just we need some way to offically score it.
Why do I suggest this? The idea of raising the hardness on everything really isn't a good idea, it makes more sense to just add a tremendous amount of things to bomb rather than bombing houses that take 4k of ord to kill.

2. The event time frame needs to have time set aside for bombers to RTB. Under the current 3 hour time frame bombers do not have enough time to fly two sorties and RTB both times. The average round trip for my squadron (which upped from A33) was about 250-300 miles, and took about 140 minutes to complete. This means that if we fly 2 sorties we will most likely be counted as MIA on the return from our second sortie. This really isn't fair to the buff pilots as they have to return to home fields where as fighters can land anywhere.
How to correct it? If the buffs are over France and headed home at the end of the frame, then they should not be counted as MIA. I know that the end hostilies rule is there to prevent last minute major attacks and force people to RTB, however, the buffs really are stretched for time due to the distance they have to fly. Also lets be honest, it won't be as fun for the RAF if they only have one buff attack to deal with, true they may win easier, but who wants to fly around for hours waiting.

I'll try and post a few more ideas once I get home after work.

[2Slow]

Darn good ideas in points 1 and 2.

I like the idea of carpet bombing.  This was WWII.  Except for dive bombers, carpet was the method used by both sides.  I love to carpet in the MA's.  I like the idea of one pass, one pickle, no loiter time.  Very realistic.

Using a spread sheet and some observations, one can create a delay calculator for any speed and any loadout.

[Beefcake]

Beefcakes Ideas Continued:

3. Flak....there was none of it. We really need more flak. Now, before everyone gets upset, I know that flak absolutely destroys fighters like me going through a box of chicken nuggets. However, we really need flak to set the atmosphere ,so this is my idea or addon idea as I think someone already suggested this.
First off set the flak damage to about 25% power, this way fighters can take a hit and keep going. On the flip side we need more flak batteries. I suggest that if the map gets retooled then make a simple base with 6-8 flak guns and maybe 2-3 AA guns and call it a Gun Battery. Then take these bases and line them around important targets and maybe even out in the boonies and give them no map icon so the Axis doesn't know where they are. Now you've created a nice defense that the buffs will have to fly through and the escort will have to avoid. The idea here is that the buffs will have to fly in and through the flak for a period of time and will slowly take damage.

4. Divert some pressure off the buffs. Right now under the current setup BoB is won or lost by the buffs. Yes I know that the escorts play a very important role but lets be honest, buffs win or lose this event. Here is a random idea that you may or may not like. Why not create "air superiority" sectors? The idea is several sectors are chosen that must be defended and the side that controls the airspace at frames end gets extra credit or points or something. So why might this be a good thing? It would promote dog fights between the RAF and Luftwaffe, no bombers involved (unless they pass thru) just good furballing fun between sides. This idea would also force the RAF commander to commit some units to area defense while the Luftwaffe commander would have to pull units off escort duty to attack that airspace. These airspace sectors would have to be along the coast in "neutral ground" where no one has a real advantage. This idea really isn't realistic but I suggest it to promote furball fun, rather than the RAF always attacking bombers and the Luftwaffe doing alot of escorting.

[2Slow]

Beefcakes Ideas Continued:

3. Flak....there was none of it. We really need more flak. Now, before everyone gets upset, I know that flak absolutely destroys fighters like me going through a box of chicken nuggets. However, we really need flak to set the atmosphere ,so this is my idea or addon idea as I think someone already suggested this.
First off set the flak damage to about 25% power, this way fighters can take a hit and keep going. On the flip side we need more flak batteries. I suggest that if the map gets retooled then make a simple base with 6-8 flak guns and maybe 2-3 AA guns and call it a Gun Battery. Then take these bases and line them around important targets and maybe even out in the boonies and give them no map icon so the Axis doesn't know where they are. Now you've created a nice defense that the buffs will have to fly through and the escort will have to avoid. The idea here is that the buffs will have to fly in and through the flak for a period of time and will slowly take damage.

4. Divert some pressure off the buffs. Right now under the current setup BoB is won or lost by the buffs. Yes I know that the escorts play a very important role but lets be honest, buffs win or lose this event. Here is a random idea that you may or may not like. Why not create "air superiority" sectors? The idea is several sectors are chosen that must be defended and the side that controls the airspace at frames end gets extra credit or points or something. So why might this be a good thing? It would promote dog fights between the RAF and Luftwaffe, no bombers involved (unless they pass thru) just good furballing fun between sides. This idea would also force the RAF commander to commit some units to area defense while the Luftwaffe commander would have to pull units off escort duty to attack that airspace. These airspace sectors would have to be along the coast in "neutral ground" where no one has a real advantage. This idea really isn't realistic but I suggest it to promote furball fun, rather than the RAF always attacking bombers and the Luftwaffe doing alot of escorting.

I like point 3.  I do not like point #4 for the very reason you cite in your last sentance.

I do think that the current dar and scramble setup did give the RAF participants a taste of what it was really like.

Sit round, play some chess, make some small talk, and think bout the lass at the pub.  No scramble and where the heck did that group come from that just bombed us?  Or scramble and where the heck is the enemy?

Without a good set of dar operators and posted ground observers, the RAF is doomed.  Now the question is, how do we get a good actual or simulated condition of dar and observers?  With the goal of maintaining the fog of war.

[RTHolmes]

adding wind would help promote carpet bombing (precision bombing is waaay too easy)

as for radar - surely base flashing enabled both sides (simulates ground observers less alt info), no darbar and enemy radar only enabled for allies would best simulate this without all the C&C bother?

I like the idea of 2 new "bases" - an AA battery and a radar station. both should be quite hard to spot from the air (no massive pads etc) and they were pretty standardised:

AA battery:

4x 3.7" (5"?) guns and a control building. (the stuff on the right is accomodation which could be quite a distance off)

Radar Station:

7 towers, couple of hardened buildings, 3x Bofors guns (37mm?)

[RTHolmes]

thinking about it, friendly darbar should be on for both sides, enemy darbar only for allies.

[2Slow]

thinking about it, friendly darbar should be on for both sides, enemy darbar only for allies.

Wow!  Your pictures brought flashbacks to when I was stationed overthere in the '70's and '80's.

Happy Thanksgiving to one and all.

[wasq]

IMHO the clipboard maps should remain.  I treat mine as a paper map.  The map shows a coastline of a certain shape, I look out the windscreen for that shape.  To me, the clipboard map represents the efforts of my navigator/bombadier and his navagation aids.

I think now that the Combat Tour is officially scrapped we can talk about the closed beta... One of the things I liked there was that how the pilosts abilities affected the way the plane on the clipboard map was displayed. If the pilot was poor at navigation it would be a randomized position near the real position etc.

If this kind of "position fuzziness" could be added as an arena setting, it would mean a lot to the realism. You could, for example, say you are within a specific numpad grid within a sector, but not the exact pinpoint location.

[2Slow]

I think now that the Combat Tour is officially scrapped we can talk about the closed beta... One of the things I liked there was that how the pilosts abilities affected the way the plane on the clipboard map was displayed. If the pilot was poor at navigation it would be a randomized position near the real position etc.

If this kind of "position fuzziness" could be added as an arena setting, it would mean a lot to the realism. You could, for example, say you are within a specific numpad grid within a sector, but not the exact pinpoint location.

Perhaps only when one was at sea with no land in sight.  One must remember that this is Europe.  There are lots of landmarks.  Let me assure you that if one has a map and binoculars (if one is at extreme altitude) you will have no problems knowing where you are.  Having flown there, civil and military, I had no issues.

As I have said elsewhere, one could make this simulation so realistic that only real life pilots could take off or land, navigate, and execute their mission.

Without a good early warning system (EWS) and a corp of ground observers reporting Axis positions, the Empire and the RAF are doomed.  In the BOB's where the Axis ignored the EWS, the Empire won.  In the ones where the Axis took note of the EWS, the Empire lost.

If we were to do BOB with regular arena settings then who knows?  Perhaps this would be a good matter for some what if snapshots.  One with full dar both sides, another with only full dar for the Allies, and another with only dar bar for the Empire.

[Roscoroo]

BOB 2004 was on a killer terrain built just for it.  I want the towns, cliffs ,custom flds ,maned flaks,dar installations with more then one target to disable them. (none of this one pass and move onto the next one )

I'd really get excited to see the balloons on Cables ... but thats asking alot. (but hell we had ufo's in AH1)

Towns should be included in airfield objectives to disable them. (AE: no rearms at a disabled fld )

it's also time to finish its planeset . he111, the early ju-88,Do-17 ,  Beaufighter,  Defiant,Bristol Blenheim,Gloster Gladiator  . (also fix the spit and hurri armament,,, Somethings different in the hitsprite count or they've been weakened lethality wise) 

there should be more of a time delay on how fast the LW can rearm/fuel when making that short hop from Calais to Dover (hells kitchen).  or the Raf should be able to go feet dry and harrass the LW or even plant observers /full recon sorties.

now most important ...


Were the hell is my Trailer !!!


So we will wait for a fresh terrain befor you see BOB again ...at least that has to be fixed.

[RTHolmes]

deckchairs and pipes

wth is that dog? looks like a boxer/labrador cross