Author Topic: Time for a new Furball Arena  (Read 4945 times)

Offline Spacy

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Time for a new Furball Arena
« on: December 11, 2008, 04:40:20 PM »
To all readers.  I sent this email to Skuzzy a couple of days ago.  I have had no response though I understand he has replied to some of my other squaddies telling them to post it here.  Has anything ever come from a post here?  I dunno because I don't usually read all the pap in these forums.  I have the support of my squad.  I am hoping to get enough support from the general community to make these requests a reality so if you agree with some or all of what I've said here, please make your wishes known loud and long!  Thanks.  (The reason I originally sent this in the form of an email was to avoid the flaming about the DA that will happen as a result of this post.  But, now it's here so....flame on!)

I have been playing AHII since July of 2007.  I started out in 8 player and moved to the MAs when 8 player was closed.  Since the closing of 8 player, many of us who used to fly there for the pure fun of dogfighting have moved to the Dueling Arena for our fun.  Specifically, we fly in the Furball area of the DA.  When I first started flying in the DA, there were only 5 or 6 of us who would show up and fight in the Furball area.  As I'm sure you are aware, the numbers have grown to highs in the 60s and 70s on a regular basis.  I joined a squad when I moved from 8 player.  The squad is TA's AeroFighters, Inc.  We actually have about 30 active players at any given time and about 50 total in the squad.  I am the XO.  We are mostly guys from 30 to 50 who still would prefer 8 player but make do with the furball area.  I give you this background because we are serious players and represent about $9,000 a year in revenue for AHII and would appreciate our voices being heard.
 
Specifically we would ask you to consider the following requests in order of their importance to us at this time:
 
1.  Please reset the pilot statistics monthly just as you do the other arenas.  This arena has more players in it than the Blue Arena but more attention is paid to the MAs than to the DA.  Resetting will allow individual pilots to see if they are improving, or to show the difference that might occur from flying a different airplane.
 
2.  Consider formalizing the Furball Arena as a separate Arena with squads and statistical support.  Maybe there could be more that one area of bases including some with mountains and/or canyons.  Separating the Furball from the Dueling Arena would reduce the confusion when pilots think some kind of formal dueling rules should apply to the furball area.
 
3. Reopen 8 player arenas that are hosted and monitored by AH rather than private individuals.  We would be happy to pay for the free-for-all of the old 8 player or even a 16 player model and have every man for themselves.
 
I would be more than happy to discuss some of these ideas on the phone with you.  Thanks for your consideration on these matters.
 
Spacy
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Offline Murdr

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008, 06:40:39 PM »
Frankly I'd like to see the furballing area removed from the DA.  If that means shipping furballing off to its own little arena that is fine with me.  It's presence has redefined the concept of what the DA is for in the mind of newer players .  The sub-culture there is the antithesis of why the DA really exists.  


Offline LLogann

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 06:43:47 PM »
On The Nosey!!!   :salute

Frankly I'd like to see the furballing area removed from the DA.  If that means shipping furballing off to its own little arena that is fine with me.  It's presence has redefined the concept of what the DA is for in the mind of newer players .  The sub-culture there is the antithesis of why the DA really exists.  


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Offline moot

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2008, 07:03:10 PM »
Get rid of score and landing messages.. Furball means fighting, not scoring. Nor hording for that matter...
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Online Shane

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2008, 07:12:19 PM »
Only 3 things I would change - specifically in regards to Furball Lake...


1) move the 3 bases a *few* more miles apart (up on the 2nd terrace?) so there's room for smaller actions off the side. things are so close you're constantly getting jumped even away from the grinder in the middle.

2) remove "perk" planes from those 3 bases and any other bases within 3 sectors (or add a 50k wall surrounding the Lake)

3) keep the no ranking aspect - that's what the MA's are for.

<edit>  4ish) Maybe a MOTD briefly explaining  what each area is "for".

« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 07:20:04 PM by Shane »
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2008, 08:46:57 PM »
Frankly I'd like to see the furballing area removed from the DA.  If that means shipping furballing off to its own little arena that is fine with me.  It's presence has redefined the concept of what the DA is for in the mind of newer players .  The sub-culture there is the antithesis of why the DA really exists.

Yep.   
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Offline Denholm

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2008, 09:02:02 PM »
...3. Reopen 8 player arenas that are hosted and monitored by AH rather than private individuals.  We would be happy to pay for the free-for-all of the old 8 player or even a 16 player model and have every man for themselves...
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Offline Spacy

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2008, 09:46:49 PM »

3) keep the no ranking aspect - that's what the MA's are for.


We are not interested in rankings...only in scoring so we can see follow improvement or skill with a particular plane.  It would cost HT nothing to reset the scores each month...they do it for an arena that averages 30 players per day.  The DA averages twice that.

Spacy
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Offline gosthntr

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2008, 09:51:08 PM »
  To all readers... I only ask that you read my posting with the same respect  I give yours.. That is to read it in a way as to listen to my points and wishes as I have listened to yours and to give my the same weight you would give your own or your friends, as I do yours. I know my mind is never made up should a argument be made that makes more sense to me than the position I currently stand upon.

  I started flying Aces High a few years back, and strictly flew MA. I continued on with the game for approximately 9 months, then I became very unhappy with the peripheral aspects of the game. These aspects specifically being some squads, and certain players. These follow as such... There were certain squads and more intently certain players who were just a nuisance. No matter what, they always complained about the way things were being played, even if the action that night was following whatever "pattern" (i.e.. More dogfights than ground fights, etc..) that he/they were LOUDLY stating should be "how the game is played" just the previous night.
 Furthermore these specific instances became worse when people who only occasionally would come into that arena would show up, make statements on how the "thing should be played/ran/scored" and then these people would leave the arena, and go back to the one they had come from in the first place.
  Now, it may have been more the times I had come in, or whatever aspects made it so, but usually when I came into play, I was one of the few "unattached" pilots. Being "unattached" made it somewhat hard to get that score I wanted to be able to advance into the more advanced planes/tanks/etc, and more advanced rank. I never held it against any of these people I fought against, that they were part of a squad and watched each others backs, making sure that if you were about to make a kill on their squadie, you had 2 or 3 of them swooping in to the rescue, on the contrary I thought it was pretty cool. Personally I just didnt have the time in my life to devote to anything other than family or work then and I didnt want to be "expected" to do more. (Some of you know what I mean, not sure if there still are any squads out there that do it, but I know there were some that had the"You be online and ready to rumble by this time" stuff going) Be it as that may, it became enough to make me leave the game entirely for a time.

  So now I have come back to AH and found a home in the DA. I still wander into the MA from time to time, usually to let those much better pilots use me for target practice, but enjoy my time in there. But I mostly remain in the DA, specifically the Furball Arena. There have been some people out there who want to disband squads, not allow this or that, etc. I see their point on some items. But, I don't see why we would completely rip out the guts of what has become a very wonderful "home" to many pilots of the AH family. Some changes are mostly a good thing, painful at times, yes, but items like resetting the scoring for pilots to see how much they have improved is a pretty viable idea. I also have to agree with Shanes idea of setting aside more room for the "1to1" fights, or build the arena so that there is a 1-1 canyon or such set just to the side of the furball area so that the pilots can use their own bases and such and don't have to move around to get there. I personally do not like 1-1 fights happening right in the middle or just off to the side of the "action" as I, personally, have flown into the fight, thinking I am helping out a fellow pilot from my "country" and ruin the 1-1. At no time did I mean to ruin their fun, but I happened into it inadvertently. Hence why those in the DA always hear me stating  "tell us or take it to the canyon", as a way to keep it separate. Personally, while I do not want more area between bases, as one of the drawbacks for me in the MA is the long flight sometimes found to get to the fight, I would enjoy seeing a little more diversified terrain than bare ground or water to fight on.

I do hear a lot of the "We need to move the DA out completely" or "Move the furball away". I think this is being a little extreme for the small improvements most are asking for. This falls under the same type of thought process as when those of us who fight the furball or DA arena's go into the MA and find the (VERY)few AH members who seem to be rabid Rooks, Knights, or Bishops and do not think that we hold whatever area we generally fight with  in the DA as "ours". Yet most do, but even then you will see knights become rooks, bishops become knights, rooks become bishops to try and make the arena more of a fun and even place to have our cyberbattles. So with keeping in mind this aspect, it becomes problematic as to decide what will "go" and what will "stay" and where does these specific places, such as the furball get placed. If even 2 AH members use say the tank arena in the DA, then it becomes an arena that should be protected at ALL costs and we, as fellow pilots, crew members, gunners, and bombardiers should be rabid in our defense of it. Think of it this way.. It may not be YOUR arena that is in question today, but what about tomorrow?

To end my rambling (which I know it sounds like) I would like to address the parts of resetting the arenas scores and the place of squads in the DA. As far as resetting, personally I am ambivalent to this, but I have heard both sides of the issue and must side with the resetting of the score. Personally, I switch planes depending on what I see the fight developing into  (fly a long distance, maybe a P51, not so far, maybe a FM2, etc) But MANY use this tool as a way to rate themselves and to see if there is any improvement in their play during that month. So I do see where they are coming from and the argument for that just makes more sense.
As for squads being in the DA, I know personally I am biased towards this as I belong to a DA squad. I have developed some long term friendships through the squad and find that when I play I look forward to these gentlemen and ladies coming into the arena and my being allowed to cover their backs in a fight, and being sure they are there when I need some help. Does this mean that I cover them instead of a fellow "countryman"? No. It just means that I have a group that I look forward to flying with and enjoy talking to on the radio because I have become comfortable with them. I still fly with the many others who start from my base, and treat them the same as anyone else. Many will give the argument that having squads creates "ganging". I disagree. If I was to see another countrymens plane in trouble, I would jump in and help. I personally will generally pull off the fight if there is more than 2 planes involved unless I am a primary in the dogfight. Some people do not and take advantage of this which is a negative thing. Same as flying at 20,000k, waiting to see a furbal develop and flying through to pick off a few (otherwise known as BoomNZoom) on the edges is not a true fight. (But that is MY opinion).

If we are going to make changes to the DA, lets make them the least painful to all, and the most gainful to all. If it causes a problem, then it isn't one that we need at this time, but, if it is an improvement, and will not change anyone's thoughts of AH, or make them quit something they have come to enjoy as a place to get away from the "real world", but yet make it an even more enjoyable stay then let's do it.
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Online Shane

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2008, 10:19:16 PM »
I think furball lake has it's place... it has the potential to be more than it is.  it's not a new concept, nor is anything being done there that hasn't been done in prior games (except maybe the HO being enabled. :noid)

The DA does have fairly decent nbrs, and i refer back to the Lake needing to be expanded a little (at least base-wise.)
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Offline Murdr

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2008, 12:22:13 AM »
3. Reopen 8 player arenas that are hosted and monitored by AH rather than private individuals.  We would be happy to pay for the free-for-all of the old 8 player or even a 16 player model and have every man for themselves.

FYI

We had our convention this past weekend which gave us the chance to speak with players in person and talk about the future of AH.  We’ve been thinking about how we were going to move forward and came to some conclusions that we decided to announce at the convention.

The main news is that we have decided to put Combat Tour on an indefinite hold.  The reason for this is that we have decided that it is better to steer our development in a way that allows us to implement our CT developments first as part of the regular game. 

The way we’ve been going has been like trying to fight a two front war with only one army.  It’s stretched us too thin and has hurt our overall level of productivity.  It also has handcuffed us in a lot of our development decisions by forcing us to indefinitely postpone a lot of other things.

Our biggest obstacle with CT is in breathing life into it to make it fun and immersive.     While a basic structure is there, there’s a ton of detail work to be done to reach that end goal.  Without it, it just has too much of a cardboard cutout feel that’s not going to engage players and hold their attention for long. 

What this all means for now is that we are going to focus on core game development.  We’re going to pull the CT AI mission system and redevelop it for use by CM’s in scenarios and special events.  We’re working on new terrain upgrades in both the technology and the art used.  We want to implement a character animation system.  We want to bring back the old 8 player H2H but expand it both in the number of players and with additional gameplay capabilities.   There’s a lot of systems in the game engine that are dated and in need of overhaul.

In hindsight, this is how we should have approached it from the start.  This will keep us heading in the right direction while getting improvements out to our current players and speeding up our development.  It’s really a chance to reboot our process to get back to our old development cycle that saw things moving at a faster pace.

Offline 20mmrain

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2008, 12:23:30 PM »
    This Is Rain20(20mmrain) and what ever else you would like to call me. But I agree very much with Spacy's request. If we made the Da like another arena this would be great! Also then I could finally stop hearing the complaint from the MA people that, the DA isnt a real challenge or even an arena and all who play there arnt really playing the game!

     So In short Spacy you Have my support anf the full support of the Sleeper cartel! Anything we can do to help and get this done let me know!

Signed Rain20 XO
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Offline higheye

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2008, 06:24:40 PM »
     I am in full agreement with Spacys request.  I am pretty new to the game and spend most of my time in the DA trying to put some moves  to the test.  I sometimes have a hard time figuring out progress with new strategies, or for that matter how good or bad a day I'm having so resetting score is my main concern, however all of the ideas Spacy presented here sound good to me.  I ask that these ideas are given serious consideration.  Thanks.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2008, 06:34:23 PM »
So the point of having a DA is what then?  What it sounds like is you want an arena where you feel like you are the big fish in the small pond.  Not that scores and stats mean much if anything

Seems like the DA was meant for something beyond the regular arena. 
 
If you are that big on stats, squads etc, then go play in the arenas built for that.  Let the DA be the DA.

If you need stats to tell you whether you are getting better or not, you aren't really paying attention to the fights.
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Offline moot

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Re: Time for a new Furball Arena
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2008, 07:03:46 PM »
The ironic thing is that gsthntr and co. are supposed to be the mother geese here, protecting their precious friends and furball setup, when in fact it's players and groups of players like TAAF that really turned the tide of the DA lake, from a place where people didnt even engage without permission, into an intense but mostly lame moshpit.  Every player that predates TAAF comes back to the DA lake after years of absence and gets on vox asking people why they're butting in.. "What are you doing butting in and shooting over my shoulder; this is the DA!..." And TAAF type of players tell em not to make others play their game... Ask Agent360 what he thinks of the TAAF hassling him to no end...
But, I don't see why we would completely rip out the guts of what has become a very wonderful "home" to many pilots of the AH family.
Kettle, pot..

With the new H2H there ought to be what gangers and tempest addicts want.. Once that's up and running there's no reason to keep derailing the DA. At the moment the fights are barely any good, anyway.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 07:29:38 PM by moot »
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