Blackout Flying

[BigJim]

  It is rediculous to allow pilots to maneuver their planes in a blackedout condition, this was not even allowed in "old" dos AW, why is it allowed here in this new game???

[Citabria]

disable autopilot when blacked out or blacking out  

autopilot definitely saved me many times in a low altitude black screen Hi mach dive  

[LLv34_Snefens]

Blackouts doesn't have to mean loss of conscience too. Wasn't it someone on this board that told how he had tried going into a blackout in real life but at the same time he could still hear everything (and move, G-forces permitting).

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Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34
My own homepage

[Westy]

 CC. But he would not have been able to see the auto-pilot(or auto trim in this case) switch to engage it. That is a glaring error imo.
 
 -Westy

[Toad]

Westy, did you ever hear of a "blindfold" cockpit check?"

Not that most of the WW2 fighters had an autopilot switch to engage.  

[BigJim]

Hmmm Toad let me see if have this correct? you are pulling enough G to black you out but this in NO WAY restricts your movement in the cockpit???  Also I want to meet the person who can operate while blackedout LOL he must be a wonder and needs to submit his findings to the USAF immediately (we could save so much money on G suits to say the least)

[Dinger]

Ok folks, let's clear it up:
Blackout: when a person experiences G-forces sufficient to drain the blood from the eyes, causing a loss of vision.
G-LOC: When a person experiences G-forces sufficient to drain enough blood from the brain to induce loss of consciousness.

There is no design requirement in the human body that these two events occur simultaneously.  Indeed, were I the chief engineer on the human body project (and I'm just another lowly assembly-line worker) I'd give the brain a higher tolerance than the eyes (or any other organ for that matter).  Hell, I'd even make damn sure the blood flow to the eyes failed before the brain.

As for the "Can't find the autopilot switch in the dark argument", take this thought experiment:

You're flying a WWII-era plane with a magic autopilot like the one we have.  I don't want to know how or why, but you get disoriented in a sustained 6-G maneuver.  You black out.  You can't see a thing, your arm now feels like it weighs 100 pounds, but your life depends on you finding that autopilot switch.
I dunno about you, but 100 pounds is nothing when my life depends on it.  And if there existed a magic autopilot, I'd make damn sure I knew where it was.

[Toad]

Big Jim,

I've been grayed out, blacked out, g-locked and red out-ed in airplanes.

Have you?

In all but the g-loc   yes, I could move my limbs.

[SKurj]

In AH u can maneuver for only a short time while blacked out.  U cannot just keep maneuvering while in blackout.

AKSKurj

[BigJim]

You got me Toad, I have never experienced any of those things, but I do appreciate the info  .  I guess that answers my question and I can now move on  

[StSanta]

I was once blacked out. My teacher took a big black pen and removed me from the list o "good students".

Hope that counts.

Oh, and sometimes I get that weird stand-up-so-fast-yer-heart-system-si-surprised blackouts.

Gotta be similar.  



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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}

[Toad]

Jim,

NP. There are degrees to everything and like most things in aviation "it depends". Depends on G-load, depends on if you were ready for the G-load, and on and on. Absolutes are hard to find in this area.

My actual point, though, is this:

Wouldn't it have been better to frame your first post as a simple request for information rather than an accusation, given your first hand experience level with the matter in question?

Just a request for civility and calm on the boards.  

[BigJim]

LOL well Toad for me that WAS a calm request    I just based my feelings on my experience with all the "other" flight sims I have flown since dos AW (some of which were created by Dale and crew).  When posting here or any other board you ALWAYS expect someone to disagree with your POV, but your real life experience certainly makes me take your word on the subject

[popeye]

Toad,

Do you notice any lasting, or cumulative, effects from blackout?  Do you think there should be some kind of "pilot fatigue" model based on time spent under high G?

[Toad]

Popeye,

I'm not sure I can answer that as far as a WW2 context.

When I did that stuff I was a lot younger and in a T-38. Given the trip to the area and back, we only had a relatively short time to boogie. I don't really remember being all that tired or exhausted; besides, the adrenal glands we're pumping overtime.

I do remember getting back to the ready room and experiencing the adrenal letdown after a really rockin ride. Just don't really remember being tired while doing it.

As far as the acro/acm gaming I've done in light aircraft like a Pitts or a PT-19 it's about the same. Not tired while doing it, especially since you're charged up. I've done this stuff for 15-20 minutes at a crack. A pleasant tiredness later.

On exception: A few years back I went out with an old UPT buddy in his Pitts. We were really laying it on each other. Until we got to the Neg G maneuvers; both of us got tired of that stuff in about 2 minutes, LOL. We both made the same comment at the same time "This Neg stuff isn't as fun as I remember it!"

Maybe some of the other guys who've done some yanking and banking would like to comment?