Perceptions of fight quality

[Saurdaukar]

I've been flying here for over 7 years, and the fights have changed so much that it was a totally different game back then.

Back then the game was about "combat". Did you know that they use to reset the map once a week back then, ya know why? It was never "won". Not because it was hard to do, there just wasn't that much interest in it. Sure some bases were taken, then they were taken back and so on. The act of taking a base sometimes took all night because people fought over them. One single base, ALL NIGHT ! And no it wasn't because the numbers were so low because it was "new", we had close to what we have on a weeknight in one of the MAs.

Back then it was more history buffs playing out a fantasy role playing game.

Today we have the "I want it now!" generation. Nobody has the will, or patience to put the time and effort in becoming good at which ever type of combat they like. To most people they need it now, that means diving head on into every fight to get the kill first, carpet bombing a single GV because they don't know how to use a single bomb, or hunt with another gv, spawn camping is the only way gvs are used these days, even the Ltars are a shadow of what they were. Nobody takes pride in how they play, its all about wining getting the war won no matter what it takes, including having someone switch countries to occupy a shore battery so their friends can bring the CV in close with out fear of it getting shelled 

Have I changed? Sure! I fly a lot smarter. I know the planes I fly a lot better, I know where to find fights by reading the map. Even my aim is getting better after I spent some time in the TA with Ghosth for a little training. ( yes even us old timers still look for training!) My expectations for this game however have not changed over all these years. I expect to login and find a few fights, have some fun, get caught up with whats going on with a few of my friends. These days however, the fights are harder to find, so the fun. Its hard to catch-up with some of my old friends because they got tired of the poor game play and don't play as much if they haven't canceled their accounts.

Even the old tricks for starting a fight don't work as well any more. I flew over to an enemy base at about 8-10k had the base flashing for a while. Finally a 109 ups. I let him climb to 5-6k and I start attack. I'm in a C-hog, but I don't fire on the HO  or front quarter passes. I burn "E" recklessly until we are close in "E" but co alt at about 3k. I see a tiffy up so now I start to push the fight a bit harder figuring the tiffs going to get some alt while the 109 keeps me busy. Wrong, as I finish off the 109 I look over and the tiffy is on final for a landing. No he's not dragging me to the ack, he is slow and dropping gear and I'm not even in auto ack range yet ! He didn't even bother to try and fight. That is what this game is coming to. Fight even up? heck no I'm landing !!!

I circled for a bit until fuel became an issue and headed home with my one fight. In the old days that would have turned into a huge furball. Why, first off the second guy wouldn't have run away. He would have been someone looking to fight either for the "thrill" or the learning experience it could be. The first guy would have come back figuring his odds might be better with 2 against 1 and it could be time for some payback!  either way he might learn something about fighting. Had they prevailed in the 2 on 1 I would have come back due to it being a fun fight, and they would he realized that the CV was just 5 miles out. Defenders and attackers would have showed up because a fight was at hand and it would have raged on until some dork sank the CV    Instead it was one fight, a coward running away with out even engaging ( thats what really blows my mind, if you don't want to fight why are you PAYING to play a COMBAT GAME?) , and the guy that got shot down dishearten because he doesn't think he stands a chance. Had he asked me to give him some room and alt to reset the fight ( like in the old days) I would have just to have another good little fight.

The game is still the same, but how it's played has changed immensely. Too many people not willing to give it the time you need to LEARN how to play, too many "I want it NOW!" types   

Post of the week.

[Saurdaukar]

Interesting thing I've discovered, MAers almost never run from a Jug or a D9.

I rarely fly Doras, but I will say that I had Spitfires running from my D25 last week on more than one occasion.

The conclusion Ive drawn is that if you fly with any sort of confident aggressiveness, the other stick gets uneasy, regardless of the aircraft in question.

To each his own.

[skullman]

I miss the old days-4 yrs ago.When I first started there were many good clean fights and not the gang tards we have now.I am not a good pilot but I wont ho on the merge and spend most of flight time avoiding it.I remember when it was common to let someone get back on an even field and go at it again.My best recent fight there was not even a shot fired by either.We were in spit 8's and spent 10 minutes just manuevering till someone jumped in and nailed me.If I get whacked by a stick that just outflew me no big deal cause he just taught me a lesson.I really love the gv's and a good spawn war or vbase fight.But here come the hordes ruining it.Tankers like a good fight too.Kinda like having a good fight and the conga line joins in.

[Belial]

I think you may be experiencing fighter fatigue, try getting in a bomber for a long range flight with a pony escort, someone you enjoy talking to.  Or take out a gv and camp a spawn, killing people over and over always makes me feel better about myself

[Vudak]

If it wasn't for my squad, I wouldn't spend much time in the MA.  The quality of my time in there is poor, the level of general sportsmanship is extremely low, and my frustration is very large.  It's really not worth the subscription money as far as I'm concerned.

Now the DA, on the other hand, is a different story.  My favorite thing to do is go at it with friends for a few hours in there on a semi-private field.  That's what keeps me coming back

[5PointOh]

I read Fugitives post and reminded me of last night. I was in a LWArena, OKansas map, anyway I am flying around my base around 10k. I see a Jug come in and dump some ord on the VH, and head toward the sea.  I'm in a 51D, and decided to give chase.  The Jug and I are all alone and I'm still chasing him.  At 2.0 the Jug turns to fight, here he comes at me head on, so with a little nose down angle I avoid the HO. So now it turns into a turn fight.  Up and down, twisting and turning, at some point I made a slight mistake, because the Jug is now 800 from me.  I level out and start to head out toward the sea.  Trying to gain a little separation to reset the fight. At this time I see another Bish plane coming in, I tell him I am OK and I got him. The Bish plane ignores my request.  Now the Jug is running from me and the other Bish.  I say again "I got this one".  The second Bish still ignores.  About the same time I see a stream of tracers go  by my canopy. To my dismay I have a Zero on my six closing fast to assist his Jug buddy.  I drop a notch of flaps and go nose up, and watch the zero go beneath me. Retract the flaps and dive down onto the six of the zero as he's following the other Bish up.  I open up the .50s and poof the wing of the Zero is taking a vacation from the rest of the plane. The Jug is now 3.0 away, so I kick in full power and WEP.  I close to 1.5 and I see the Jug is heading right for is base. I decide that it’s time to turn back, rather than fight in a large airfields ack. As I am making my turn I notice a Typhoon much higher than I, coming in at a very high rate of speed, BOOM, the tail section of my plane is gone. Movements later I see the Typhoon driver spouting his mouth about ganging his buddy, and running from the Jug and how it’s funny that he shot me down.  OK no big deal, So I reupp and I am climbing out and my SA was more focused on the TV than the game, and I get slammed into by another 51.  SYSTEM:18Whiskey has collided. Ok no big deal again; I refrain from talking smack to the Typhoon/Pony driver that has taken out two of my planes.  Re up again and I settle for an alt of 7k when I see another Pony, we start to tangle then he breaks and starts to run toward the sea. Hes about 800 out, I fire a 1 sec burst to get his attention, and it does.  He starts to twist and turn, now I'm 600 out.  Still need to get a tad closer due to my convergence. Still trying to escape the Pony driver make a slight sweeping right turn.  I line up and have closed to 400, perfect, hold a 4 sec burst in lead fashion and the Pony flies right into my stream and BOOM. SYSTEM: You have kill 18Whiskey. I offer a Salute, vs smack talk, and recieve nothing. But on the other hand I have had amazing fights against Solar10 and countless others.  That being said, my opponent seems to dictate my perception of the fight. And my respect for my opponent dictates my perception of the fight. 

[Scotch]

Paragraphs are our friend. 

[The Fugitive]

Here's the problem: Alot of people consider the game to be about "winning the war". And it is not necessary to have combat to take bases.

That's IT, the entire thing, right there. But you know what? Every suggestion to make it obligatory to have combat (dar all the way to the ground, smaller maps) to take bases is ignored or poo-pooed. Every suggestion to make spawn camping less viable and every suggestion to make map-moving less about toolshedding with high buffs is treated the same way, nipped in the bud by naysayers. So please, with all due respect, get behind a couple of the good ideas to make air/ground superiority necessary for map moving, or shut up.

Oh, and Fugi, get off your high horse for Pete's sake. If you want people to willingly fight you, try NOT being higher than them in a fast plane that dives well, rolls well, turns extremely well, and packs 4xHispanos. You know the outcome of Typhoon getting into it with a F4U-1C with superior E as well as I do. Interesting thing I've discovered, MAers almost never run from a Jug or a D9.

Not to make excuses, but I had upped a C-hog because there was dar bar in the same sector as the CV, so I was hunting buffs. Had I been on the other side of the fight I would have fought. No I don't think I'd have upped a tiffy, but I wouldn't have run no matter what.

Some of you idiots have to keep singing the same song. "It's all about the furballers trying to take away the landgrabbers fun"  get off your high horse, if the landgrabbers didn't run off and hide every time some resistance showed up maybe there wouldn't be a problem. Its all about combat. If you don't learn how to fight whether in a fighter, gv, or as a team with multiple elements then your just a horde that MUST run away, because you don't KNOW ANY OTHER WAY!

I'll fight anything, anytime, with anything. I fought 2 spit 16s on the deck in my pony, I lost. I fought a pony and a spit at 8k with my pony, spit ran away, and I killed the pony. Common denominator is I had fun, I hope they did too....well not the spit that ran away    There is not problem with winning the war, but make a fight out of it. Instead of hording, or hiding fight for it. Instead of allowing 35 guys to join the mission to attack a base, launch it when you hit 20, or split the force to hit two bases. Why don't the squads do that? I'll tell you, they want it now! they don't want to have to work for it. Take the quickest easiest way in and out. wham, bam, thank-you mame !

We've had threads about how good some of these squads are. Its great to have pride in your squad, but you have to watch what your squad is all about. If your squad is known for running NOE's all night, stealing bases from under the enemies noses only to run off and do it someplace else while the base is recaptured, what are you proud of? I could pick groups of 6 guys out of all of those that I've flown with through the years and send them out in those little groups and have them grab base after base all night and never miss capturing one. Capturing the base is a piece of cake, but wheres the fun in that? Now working for a base thats a thrill! But todays players can't keep interested that long. A mission running more than 15 minutes is pure h@ll these days.

I want it now !!! That attitude is is going to at best make mediocre players, which in turn with make for weaker and weaker game play.

[BnZs]

Our slight disagreement about the "code" (to extend or not to extend, that is the question...) aside, I agree 100% that the fun is shooting a plane with a plane and a tank with a tank. But like I say, things could actually be done to make those things the core of the MA game, things that would be more effective than us sitting here and clucking our tongues about the way the MA has gone.

Not to make excuses, but I had upped a C-hog because there was dar bar in the same sector as the CV, so I was hunting buffs. Had I been on the other side of the fight I would have fought. No I don't think I'd have upped a tiffy, but I wouldn't have run no matter what.

Some of you idiots have to keep singing the same song. "It's all about the furballers trying to take away the landgrabbers fun"  get off your high horse, if the landgrabbers didn't run off and hide every time some resistance showed up maybe there wouldn't be a problem. Its all about combat. If you don't learn how to fight whether in a fighter, gv, or as a team with multiple elements then your just a horde that MUST run away, because you don't KNOW ANY OTHER WAY!

I'll fight anything, anytime, with anything. I fought 2 spit 16s on the deck in my pony, I lost. I fought a pony and a spit at 8k with my pony, spit ran away, and I killed the pony. Common denominator is I had fun, I hope they did too....well not the spit that ran away    There is not problem with winning the war, but make a fight out of it. Instead of hording, or hiding fight for it. Instead of allowing 35 guys to join the mission to attack a base, launch it when you hit 20, or split the force to hit two bases. Why don't the squads do that? I'll tell you, they want it now! they don't want to have to work for it. Take the quickest easiest way in and out. wham, bam, thank-you mame !

We've had threads about how good some of these squads are. Its great to have pride in your squad, but you have to watch what your squad is all about. If your squad is known for running NOE's all night, stealing bases from under the enemies noses only to run off and do it someplace else while the base is recaptured, what are you proud of? I could pick groups of 6 guys out of all of those that I've flown with through the years and send them out in those little groups and have them grab base after base all night and never miss capturing one. Capturing the base is a piece of cake, but wheres the fun in that? Now working for a base thats a thrill! But todays players can't keep interested that long. A mission running more than 15 minutes is pure h@ll these days.

I want it now !!! That attitude is is going to at best make mediocre players, which in turn with make for weaker and weaker game play.

[5PointOh]

Paragraphs are our friend. 

Sorry, typing on my mobile phone.  Paragraph form wasn't my first concern.

[The Fugitive]

Our slight disagreement about the "code" (to extend or not to extend, that is the question...) aside, I agree 100% that the fun is shooting a plane with a plane and a tank with a tank. But like I say, things could actually be done to make those things the core of the MA game, things that would be more effective than us sitting here and clucking our tongues about the way the MA has gone.

There is nothing wrong with shooting a plane with a tank and vis-a-versa.

Scenario:

Time=0 launch 2 sets of B24s, and one goon from back line base 3 sectors out from target base.
Time= +30 launch launch 4 fighters 1 and half sectors out to meet up with and protect buffs and goons at 15k.
Time= +35 launch 2 fighters from same base as other fighters, but they only climb to 10k and hit adjacent base as decoy Kill radar and deack.
Time= +35 launch 3 panzers 2 wirbles and aM3 to target base. M3 does an end around while wirbles protect panzers from IL2s. Panzers protect wirbles from other gvs, and clean up town that B24 might have missed.

You have 15 people in the mission, you have back up troops, you have a decoy to draw attention away, you have fighter cover, and GV action.  Will the plan work? Maybe, but theres the fun. Give it a try and see if it works. Are the launch times good? Do all the attackers reach the target about at the same time? As a defender would you fall for the decoy? Would you have enough cap up? Could you handle an attack from both the air and the ground at the same time?

Thats what this game is suppose to be about.   

[Bucky73]

Fugitive......You sir are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!  

Well said...

Too many momma's boys play this game that just want everything handed to them because they are too used to getting what the want NOW and are just too dang lazy to make any effort.

Sadly, this attitude seems to be the norm with pretty much ALL kids these days.

[Oldman731]

Here's the problem: Alot of people consider the game to be about "winning the war". And it is not necessary to have combat to take bases.

That's IT, the entire thing, right there.

I'd combine that with Fugitive's comment that "back then it was more history buffs playing out a fantasy role playing game."

Otherwise I agree. 

- oldman

[1Boner]

 if the landgrabbers didn't run off and hide every time some resistance showed up maybe there wouldn't be a problem.  they don't want to have to work for it. Take the quickest easiest way in and out. wham, bam, thank-you mame !

Wow, that quote could very well be applied to the guys who fly P-51s , 190s , Tempests, C-hogs, spawn campers, etc etc.

As a matter of fact, I think it could be applied to the latter even more so.

All ya gotta do is look around, that statement could be applied to alot of situations with the same frequency that is used against "landgrabbers".

But a few guys in here keep throwing the "landgrabbers" to the lions, forgeting to look around a little more before pigeon holing one type of play as "avoiding" fights.

[Animl]

It all has to do with arena size.  Back in the day with less people you knew who you were fighting, and anyone who flew like a tard was generally called out and shamed for it.  I think that is what is missing these days, arenas get too big and the self policing by the community is hampered by the fact that sissies can hide in the crowd and get away with it, then cry about "bullies" on the occasions someone does take them to task.  I'd be all for a 3rd main arena to get the size down even further to undo the horde monkeys' effect.

Hence why Mid War generally has a much better fight atmosphere than Late War.

I agree