The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?

[Animl]

At last Kewassa you make since, I am 100%  sure these people will keep showing up, it is the nature of the beast. But you seem to think it is the games fault, when it is just the way people are. There are very few people who maintain an interest in one game for ever. Catering to these people has been tried by one sim, I do not see many people playing there any longer.

The rest of your argument has become a moving target.  I will only point out one.

With this logic no mater what changes you make to the game or to the rules every one can say, people can fly what they want when they want with in the confines of the rules of the game. So no mater how Kawassa would design a game this would still hold true.  The rest of your statement are exactly the same. 

HiTech

<bows to the messiah>

Awesome, there IS a god.

<walks away singing "tell it like it is.....">

<hides under a rock for shelter>

Animl

[Saurdaukar]

See rule #4

[grizz441]

But you guys are soooo very guilty of the same game play you aspouse to detest!  Please correct me if I'm wrong !

Let me correct you since you are wrong.   

Do Muppets gang, pick, run, HO, vulch?  Yes.  But the actuality of the situation is we do all these things very seldom where as other squads, it is their M.O.  If you followed us around on a given night, you'd see a few HO's, a little bit of vulching, some picks, and some running ...absolutely no question about it.  You'd also see an extraordinary amount of ownage.  As defined on Yanksfan video biography of SkyRock,  ownage is starting a fight at disadvantage, reversing the advantage, and killing the guy.  Now, if you followed around a mega squad, you'd see a ton of HOs, purely hording, all picks, lots of running from perfectly fair fights, lots of vulching, and little to zero ownage.  So to nitpick when you happen to see something you think makes us hypocrites is rather foolish.

Fights are dynamic and always changing.  Situations are never black and white.  We find ourselves in an even fight one minute and in a horde the next minute sometimes.  The thing is when we realize this we go fight elsewhere.  But to take a snapshot when we happen to have odds and try to justify a point that this is how we fight habitually is blatantly spinning it.

Let me take vulching for example.  I'll up from a base that looks to be a good fight.  Next thing you know, you've got a few kills and the fight has gotten completely pushed back to their base.  Some Muppets would in fact auger when this happens but I'm not that honorable I guess.  I will finish up my sortie whether it be a fair fight that it initially was or the vulch fest it turned into.  After the flight, I will fly elsewhere.     In fact a lot of the time, Muppets will change sides as a group and go fight the vulch horde.  Lots of players can contest to witnessing this.             Now imagine a player looking at the map and seeing a vulch fest in progress and taking an Fw190A-8 out of the hangar with the sole intention of vulching with the biggest guns in the game.  You see the difference here?  Imo, the key lies in your intentions when you take off.

Take HOing for example.  A lot of players come in first merge guns blazing every time.  You may see some Muppets complain about this.  Say I'm fighting a Spit16 in a Ta152.  After dodging a couple HO's I encounter a third HO situation and reciprocate with the Spit16 and luckily come out on top.  Does this make me guilty of the exact things we complain about?

Take ganging for example.  Say a fight starts off with 3 Muppets being attacked by 3 higher cons.  We drag them down, kill 2 quickly, then coordinate on the 3rd one that tries to run away.  We chase him down, the three of us, and kill him.  Does this make us gang tards?  Say I'm fighting a 1v1 and then 3 more allies jump the fight and I happen to kill the guy.  Does this make me a 4v1 gangtard?

Take running for example.  Say I'm fighting somebody and I see another con coming in for a pick so I break off and dive for the deck.  Is this the same as somebody in a better turning plane running from a 1v1? 

You can 'observe' anything happening at a particular time and come to your own conclusions on what is actually going on and how it transgressed into what you are seeing.  The fact of the matter is, Muppets do try and fight by their own 'rules' and can be seen doing so the vast majority of the time.

[Bruv119]

Let me take vulching for example.  I'll up from a base that looks to be a good fight.  Next thing you know, you've got a few kills and the fight has gotten completely pushed back to their base.  Some Muppets would in fact auger when this happens but I'm not that honorable I guess.  I will finish up my sortie whether it be a fair fight that it initially was or the vulch fest it turned into.  After the flight, I will fly elsewhere.

I feel some sympathy with this post grizz,  it happens like this for us sometimes also.   We go to where there is a big red dar looking for the furball and up a group of fighters,  kill a few in between the fields and the enemy either doesn't re-up for whatever reason or die some more and we push on towards their field getting even more kills and now happen to be perched over an enemy base with all the cards in our pocket.   Some furballers on the other team will now take a snapshot of the big red dar and up at that field.   We will then attack them with alt and whether we kill them or not their image of us is "pickers" or timid fairy queens.

You yourself called me out on 200 for killing your 109 in a pony in this very same situation awhile back,  I was down on ammo and fuel after working slowly to that field,  many guys ended up coming off the field and we ended up bugging out after getting our swagbag nice and full of pelts.   You didn't expect me to go mix it up against a very good 109 stick, with a bunch of pissed off cons at the edge of an enemy field.

I don't mind getting killed but i will go out of my way to avoid getting ganged just to annoy the pack.   These situations in the MA are very fluid.   what someone sees one minute can drastically change in the next in terms of numbers.

[grizz441]

Yes I remember.  It was ignorant of me to call you out, as it was my first sortie and I had no idea on the dynamic and development of the fight between the two bases.  I just assumed the worst, which was a mistake made in frustration.

[hitech]

See rule #4

Was a mistake in editing.

[Saxman]

See rule #4

 

[CHECKERS]

I disagree,

   Aces High 1 was the way-more fun than anything since !!!

 CHECKERS
 

  

[Saurdaukar]

See rule #4

[Xargos]

Mazz, if you scroll up you may notice he stated he made a mistake in editing something.  Could be referring to your post perhaps?

[Wolfie]

Been flying AH since version one, although my flight time is greatly reduced now from past years (due to lack of time and interest). Game development seems to have slowed and the shelving of CT was a big disappointment. Imo the increasing number of mega squads (especially in FSO) and inclusion of GVs has not been a positive contribution to the sim, but thats just my opinion. ymmv

 

[Saurdaukar]

Mazz, if you scroll up you may notice he stated he made a mistake in editing something.  Could be referring to your post perhaps?

I hope so.  I must admit I'm slightly taken back.  I thought my question was both valid and perfectly respectful.

[Saxman]

See rule #4

Was a mistake in editing.

Lol, I was about to say; MAN, even hitech got riled up.

[Dadsguns]

We go to where there is a big red dar

Yours or mine? 

Was it just the other day when you were in a horde 3 dar bars deep, picking away your 17 kills in a temp, once your buds were gone, so were you?  I am sure you have a good reason why you didn't come back like maybe the odds were shifting from your favor maybe..... or maybe everyone realized that out of everyone that was in the horde just wasnt as lucky as you getting to land,....... maybe they figured out that they were really the bait in order for you to get your kills, hmmmm makes you wonder.....     

BTW, Shreck, you make a good point and agree with your opinion. 

[Animl]

I disagree,

   Aces High 1 was the way-more fun than anything since !!!

 CHECKERS
 

  

I disagree,... I felt kinda lost in AH1. From the first day I saw it's beta, then full AH1 to now,....is like the different between a mole hill and a mountain to me. >IMO< Some things have stayed the same, some things have changed.

I took a 4 year break when AH2 first came out, so I may have a more diverse comparison not watching it grow slowly and all the forgotten kack in the middle. I have a A and B comparision.

The sim (I refuse to call it anything else, basically because I am a bone head) IMO seems much easier to play and immerse into. I remember in AH 1 BEGGING to find a fight,..as I remember it it was more like a scattered flocks of seagulls,..I literally flew for 30 min to an hour and just getting one fight. That's not the game that's the people playing it. Those people got better and now instead of focusing on the learning part, are now good enough second nature they now snivel about the smallest details,.... over and over and over...you get the picture.

The balance between graphics and speed is a ultra fine line, a science, and the game has been very successful in that way. With that comes a crowd who looks for an easier learning curve, and not needing a monster PC to run it.

With that larger crowd also comes more dweebery. *> PER CAPITA <* a very important part of the equation. There are also many more good peeps and fair peeps (all depends how you define things), but remember, we only seem to remember what we perceive as bad things,..over the good.

I have MUCH more fun then not. The key is to not take every little detail too seriously. When you do that your mileage will vary. <shrug>

Those of us in AW looked past an awful lot to make the game great in our heads. If you didn't read the BBs to remind you of certain things they probably wouldn't be noticed. There should be a 300 perk penalty for repeat whines. <g>

And I guess my last point would be. when the players become so immersed in the game to sweat the small stuff,... then the game is VERY successful. If the game sucks, you will never make it past the big stuff to even find the small stuff.

I *think* Saxman is referring to the community influx symptoms and what comes with it naturally. It's frustrating to some and always will be. It's mixed company, new and vet, young and old. Clashes of mindsets are inevitable. IMO, I feel his pain, unfortunately it seems to go with the territory.

As Roc said,... you will get out of the game what you put into it.

A lot of things bother me, almost none of them haing to do with game mechanics,..and sometimes I don't always look past them,... but it's not RL life and death either,.. it's cartoon world.

Animl