"Not Flying A P-38 Right"

[Delirium]

The P38 sucks and isn't worth the time to fly it.

'Nuff said.

[CAP1]

The P38 sucks

'Nuff said.

ooonly to the guy that;s got one on his six. 

[Tordon22]

For best 38 advice do as follows:

1.) Form a squad of fellow 38 new guys, "The Unflappable" or something like that.
2.) Put your squads name in the magic hat or whatever for Delirium's Traveling Road Show.
3.) Wait and spend time in the TA with Ren (or any of our other fine trainers) on the basics.
4.) Clear your schedule for two whole weeks of personal 38 training. (Film and notes for optimum results)

It's that easy   

-Zap

The P38 sucks and isn't worth the time to fly it.

'Nuff said.

He's really friendly, I swear.

[Traveler]

Also keep in mind that there are several Squads that only fly the P38.   You may find it helpful to fly with one of them for a while.  Feel free to check out the 113th Lucky Strikes at www.113thluckystrikes.com, come fly with us on any Saturday evening as a Knight in the Late War Arena, Vox 113.

[Guppy35]

As a dedicated P38G driver I can show you how to break, burn, wreck, crash and auger em better then anyone else in Aces High

[Soulyss]

Saw this post earlier today but I was at the office and not in a position to right a lengthy response.  Now that I get back to I see most of what I was going to say has already been posted.  I think humble/snaphook has some very valid points.  If I win a 1v1 encounter odds are good that my opponent did as much to shoot himself down as I did, I try to set up angles that require the other guy to have to haul his plane around as much as possible and bleed E then take the fight uphill where the 38 shines. 

I'm flying in the MidWar arena more often than not these days but if you see me online you're welcome to tag along and see if we can't get ourselves killed (which happens more often than not).

[Ratpack1]

I too am a 38 enthusiast for now. I do love flying it and want to become extremely better in it. Thanks for all the good info!

[TexMurphy]

The P38 sucks and isn't worth the time to fly it.

'Nuff said.

And it took you what... 60.000 hours to figure that out?

Tex

[DustyR]

I have had a fascination with P-38 all of my life.  I do a fairly decent job with it and love the huge platform that it provides.  The only thing I hate is that it's a large target and pilot wounds seem to be a way of life.

[BroncoSquid]

To reach a point that you really understand that at "point X" you need to be 30 degree's out of plane (above) and 20 degree lag pursuit but that your then going to invert and move your lift vector to 40 degree lead (ahead) to drive the elbow if the bogey does "A" or going  continue into a climbing right hand chandel if bogey does "B"...and that its all different if the bogey is in a different ride is tough.

I swear I heard someone strike a bell with a ball peen hammer. Drive the elbow?

My teammates told me to stay away from the 38 but I can't......... 
My SA, throttle, and flap management sucks, once I get a good grip on those, THEN, I can work on vector and E management.
If the furball is at the enemy base I do the 38 thing, and get shot down alot.....
If the furball is at my base I usually grab a spit due to getting shot down quickly in the 38 with no speed.

I will be checking out the 113th <S> and spending more time in the TA.
Thanks all,
100Squid

[humble]

Basically your lift vector can be viewed as the view thru the top of the canopy. If your in a better turning plane the generic "put your lift vector on him" is often the best way to win a fight. Now for a pilot in an inferior plane (in the sense of flat turn) anytime he's in plane he's losing position. However for the most part planes have a type of total balance and performance in one area often takes away something in another area. Control surface inputs cause drag, a wing optimized for turning might be less effective at unusual attitude or high AoA.

So while the pilot in the "turn machine" just has to keep his "up view" on the target the pilot of the "floating barge" {my name for the 38} has to work the plane like a concert pianist. The term "driving the elbow" is used differently, initially its thought to refer to a pilot "hand fighting" (using his hands to show relative position of two planes) with the thought that the trailing (superior positioned) plane was at the elbow of the leading plane.

However the term was used in an entirely different meaning by Robert Johnson and other Jug (P-47) drivers in WW2. They would use the Jugs zoom and roll in the vertical vs flat turning 109's. By going up and assuming a lag position they could then use a manuever called a lag displacement roll (they called it a "vector attack roll" I think but basically the same thing applied for different purpose) to move the lift vector of the jug well ahead of the 109 to a point about 1/2 thru the turn. A plane can roll much faster then it can fly thru a turn so the jug would come screaming down on top of the 109 well positioned for either a shot or to convert back to a zoom climb if countered.

This is the move Johnson used to defeat a spitfire in a somewhat famous "duel" over england as well.

[Ranger45]

Is the Vector Attack Roll the same as the Clover Leaf, and do you find this maneuver usefull in the game?

[MjTalon]

Basically your lift vector can be viewed as the view thru the top of the canopy. If your in a better turning plane the generic "put your lift vector on him" is often the best way to win a fight. Now for a pilot in an inferior plane (in the sense of flat turn) anytime he's in plane he's losing position. However for the most part planes have a type of total balance and performance in one area often takes away something in another area. Control surface inputs cause drag, a wing optimized for turning might be less effective at unusual attitude or high AoA.

So while the pilot in the "turn machine" just has to keep his "up view" on the target the pilot of the "floating barge" {my name for the 38} has to work the plane like a concert pianist. The term "driving the elbow" is used differently, initially its thought to refer to a pilot "hand fighting" (using his hands to show relative position of two planes) with the thought that the trailing (superior positioned) plane was at the elbow of the leading plane.

However the term was used in an entirely different meaning by Robert Johnson and other Jug (P-47) drivers in WW2. They would use the Jugs zoom and roll in the vertical vs flat turning 109's. By going up and assuming a lag position they could then use a manuever called a lag displacement roll (they called it a "vector attack roll" I think but basically the same thing applied for different purpose) to move the lift vector of the jug well ahead of the 109 to a point about 1/2 thru the turn. A plane can roll much faster then it can fly thru a turn so the jug would come screaming down on top of the 109 well positioned for either a shot or to convert back to a zoom climb if countered.

This is the move Johnson used to defeat a spitfire in a somewhat famous "duel" over england as well.

Got a film of that BFM. I use it alot in my 190s. Work well  Will post once i locate it

[humble]

Is the Vector Attack Roll the same as the Clover Leaf, and do you find this maneuver usefull in the game?

Two totally different moves. My understanding of the cloverleaf is that your basically in plane and varying your G loading. Basically easing the stick pressure off and on creating a variable rate turn. To me this is inferior in nature since it maintains an in plane scope of maneuver. I'm a proponent of being out of plane unless you have a specific advantage at a given moment by being in plane.

The "vector roll" is an out of plane maneuver that entails moving up out of plane to a flat turning con and actually rolling away from the con until in an inverted position you've got your lift vector pointed ahead of the bogeys projected flight path. At that point you use your elevator to pull thru in line with your lift vector. This allows a plane like a P-47 (or P-38) to use zoom, roll and elevator authority to offset an inferior flat turn rate as well as properly manage speed and AOT to avoid a potential overshoot.

[Ack-Ack]

Is the Vector Attack Roll the same as the Clover Leaf, and do you find this maneuver usefull in the game?

As snaphook pointed out, two different maneuvers.  Yes, the Clover Leaf can be useful as a last ditch maneuver to try and pull your nuts out of the fire.  You take advantage of the superior P-38's low/stall speed handling characteristics but this by no means is a maneuver that will guarantee victory.  Usually, if you find yourself in this situation is because you screwed the pooch somewhere down the line but it can and does work.


ack-ack