LIFE Magazine Color Pictures of Nazi Germany

[DREDIOCK]

(Image removed from quote.)

Did anyone else notice Colonel Hogan?

Thats not Col Hogan.
But I do know the character your referring to in the show.
And damn you, its making me crazy cause I cant think of the characters name!

Funny, As great as a show as it was. If it were never before seen. It would never see public airwaves in todays politically correct world.

[Lye-El]

Lusche, that was an excellent post.

[Lusche]

I asked you before if anyone was made a villian by the people of Germany of today, do you have anyone the population looks upon as a hero?

The only ones still publicly regarded as heroes today are members of the resistance, people that stood up against Hitler and his barbarous regime in any way, be it soldiers, priests or plain housewives. Sure, there are still some WW2 "fans", collectors out there or even right wing groups that still see some soldiers like Rommel or Galland as heroes, but that's a minority largely unnoticed by the public. There are no TV shows about the "great aces of the war" (there are basically no German shows like "Dogfights"), no articles in the major magazines recalling the great deeds of Wittman or Prien. There are TV documentaries about people like Dönitz or Rommel, but there focus is very different from American films I have seen: Military matters don't matter that much or better: They are the backdrop. It's other questions that are dealt with: What was his motivation? What was his real attitude towards national socialism? Was he involved in crimes? Why? How far? What did he know & support? Did he act against Hitler in any way?
It's the try to understand how society worked back then, and why a whole people went a way that is largely non-understandable to to Germans today
(That being said, I may also point out that the actual quality of those shows is not always exactly better than their American counterparts. It's still TV, it's still painting their picture with a very broad brush, and all those staggering simplifications and factual errors often makes watching them a pain in the butt for me )

This is a change in public awareness that resulted out of 60 years of very public discussion about that topic, research, education etc. In the 1950's for example, still a huge percentage of Germans regarded Stauffenberg and other solders that finally turned against Hitler as just being traitors. This is definitely no longer the case. This is a huge change in culture that mainly happened during the 70's and 80's.

edit: Thank you very much for answering the questions, I'm sure it is very difficult for you, but I appreciate it!

Au contraire: I have to thank you for your questions. Nice change of pace for this BBS, were thinking isn't always a requirement

[v1st]

As a person who just reads the bbs and doesn't put my name in lights.  I want to say this was 1 of the the best posts i've read.  Thanks for sharing
 v1st

[Delirium]

Another question;

Is there still a sense of animosity towards the the US/GB for the bombing offense, or any other actions during the war? Even now I read they find UXBs all over Germany...

Is there any animosity towards the Soviets for their behavior during the war? (this one may be an easy question, but I'm curious what in particular would be mentioned)

Once again, thanks for your time Lusche. 

[texasmom]

The pictures of the infantrymen are what personally grabs me the most...  Same faces, only the uniform is different.  I'm a vet of 2 wars and some smaller conflicts I can't get into.  Those fights were always against an enemy that looked totally different that us (skin tone, etc.)  It's hard for me to imagine what it was like to fight and kill people that look just like you & I.  

+1

It's even more than the appearance. I lived there for a good number of years.  Once I was able to move past the language barrier & build friendships with my neighbors I didn't think they were any different than us at all.

[VonMessa]

+1

It's even more than the appearance. I lived there for a good number of years.  Once I was able to move past the language barrier & build friendships with my neighbors I didn't think they were any different than us at all.

Well....  the food and beer is much better, but I know what you mean.

I have been to Germany several times, as I have relatives that live there, in Gräfelfing which is about 1k west of München.

Some are my age (30ish), some are of the generation before (my parents age), and some of the war age.

On my first visit, as a shameless teen who just had finished a whole unit in school about the Holocaust, I had been asking questions about the Nazi party, Hitler, the aircraft, and the war, in general. 

They sent me on a trip with Tante Anne who was 75 or so (basically in her 20's at the time of the war)   We spent the whole day touring Munich and the surrounding areas while I got a firsthand account of what it was like being a citizen of Germany during that time.  She took me from place to place and described events to me just like they happened.  "I was here working when I first heard we were going to war,I stood here when I saw Hitler's first speech", etc.  She spoke all day with, what appeared to me, to be a mixed sense of pride (in the accomplishments of the German people), fear (remembering what it was like) and embarrassment (for the awful things that happened).  What I got out of it was that most folks at the time really didn't care  for Hitler, but is was certainly not an opinion one shared with anyone (unless you wanted a visit from the Gestapo)   She also said that most Germans fought because there was only one other alternative.....

At 14 years old, it was a pretty deep and emotional day.  I guess it was an example of being careful what you ask for.

Also, thank you, Lusche   

[Anaxogoras]

Is there still a sense of animosity towards the the US/GB for the bombing offense, or any other actions during the war? Even now I read they find UXBs all over Germany...

That's another good question.  When I visited Germany, the width of the streets compared to other European nations made a big impression on me.

Fwiw, it's pretty easy for a historian to demonstrate that a majority of the bombing from March-May '45 was totally unnecessary.  The Allies bombed medium-sized cities full of refugees, small towns with less than 20,000 inhabitants; with no more military targets left to destroy, they just continued to bomb because they could.

[Plazus]

Very nice pictures!

[Delirium]

Another question;

Is there still a sense of animosity towards the the US/GB for the bombing offense, or any other actions during the war? Even now I read they find UXBs all over Germany...

Is there any animosity towards the Soviets for their behavior during the war? (this one may be an easy question, but I'm curious what in particular would be mentioned)

Once again, thanks for your time Lusche. 

Lusche?

[wes34th]

What I find interesting is that Aces is trying to promote a certain environment in keeping the swastika out of this forum.But, respectfully these are historic photos of NAZI Germany and I think the swastika was used back then.I would rather see a constitutionally acceptable Aces High bulletin board than a politically correct sanitized board any day :)Oh, was my statement politically correct?I'm sorry let's let the Aces High staff screen it for their approval

[ROX]

I hate to see it stifled as well.  I do not personally believe that folks posted photos of the era in which we fly our planes in-game to hurt anyone's feelings or intentionally offend anyone.  Discussing past history is just that, in and of itself, and is most decidedly not political.  Some symbols cannot be avoided, but if they are in a context of learning something, then it's not intended to offend.  These things all tend to work themselves out over time anyway.

Learning history is one of THE most stuck-in-the-corner school subjects in American schools that we have, and that's very sad.  Many of the younger folks have absolutely ZERO teaching of WWI, WWII, Korea, The Cold War, Vietnam, or even the First Gulf War.  The school that my daughters graduated from--history class left off at Teddy Roosevelt's presidency.  Not one single item of recent history was taught.

I, like vonmessa, I have been to Germany and enjoyed every second of it.  It was sad to see that the vast majority of an entire male generation was gone.  It was awesome to see so many friendly and outgoing folks wanting to try out their English--no matter how limited, and how well they forgave my poor German    I have no family or ancestors from there, I just wanted to go (and not put 3 years of high school German to waste) so I sold my motorcycle and booked a round trip for three weeks.  The folks there were awesome 

Sadly, many of the younger members of our board may only get some issues of life back then by what they read here--so we need to be truthful as well as hyper-accurate.  Even Wiki has some innacuracies.

One GREAT book is "Hitler's Wartime Picture Magazine: Signal" S. L. Mayer (Prentice-Hall).  It is chocked full of excellent photos and shows life on the front as well as life on the home front (ration cards, entertainment, and actual adverts from back then).  The articles and photos were edited by Goerbles and his personal staff--so take them as they are keeping that in mind.

Also, there is no better researched book available on the Invasion of the Soviet Union than Paul Carell's "Unternehmen Barbarossa im Bild" (Undertaking Barbarossa in Pictures) Verlag Ullstein, 1967.  It's in German, but even someone with a good grasp of military vocabulary and a couple of years of German can easily follow along.  I payed 25 marks for my hard cover edition back in 1979, but may be gotten on ebay for less.  It has many before then ever published photos that came straight from the family collections of veterans who were there.

I hope that especially the younger folks will take advantage of their free local libraries and spend some time in the history section.  They'd be surprised all that they have missed at school.


ROX

[CAVPFCDD]

What I find interesting is that Aces is trying to promote a certain environment in keeping the swastika out of this forum.But, respectfully these are historic photos of NAZI Germany and I think the swastika was used back then.I would rather see a constitutionally acceptable Aces High bulletin board than a politically correct sanitized board any day :)Oh, was my statement politically correct?I'm sorry let's let the Aces High staff screen it for their approval

someone got in trouble for posting one of the pictures with a swastika in it?

there are swastikas in the game... on every single german plane... that doesn't make much sense to me, like you said, it's history, it's not like anyone is posting them with a politcal agenda, but merely for a historical insight.

[Anaxogoras]

someone got in trouble for posting one of the pictures with a swastika in it?

there are swastikas in the game... on every single german plane... that doesn't make much sense to me, like you said, it's history, it's not like anyone is posting them with a politcal agenda, but merely for a historical insight.

The only swastikas in the game are on Finnish aircraft, and there it has an entirely different meaning.

[moot]

What I find interesting is that Aces is trying to promote a certain environment in keeping the swastika out of this forum.But, respectfully these are historic photos of NAZI Germany and I think the swastika was used back then.I would rather see a constitutionally acceptable Aces High bulletin board than a politically correct sanitized board any day :)Oh, was my statement politically correct?I'm sorry let's let the Aces High staff screen it for their approval

You're going to get it locked before Lusche can answer Del's question.