Author Topic: The SpitXIV conundrum  (Read 4603 times)

Offline Kazaa

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #135 on: April 29, 2009, 10:58:45 AM »
A good F4U pilot can use those wonder flaps to out turn/hover around the XVI.



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Offline moot

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #136 on: April 29, 2009, 11:19:06 AM »
The F4U weighs a ton. It's not completely one-sided.

A XIV with 21lbs boost would probably be the best change.. It'd make things more interesting than just unperking the one we have.
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Offline BnZs

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #137 on: April 29, 2009, 11:50:27 AM »
Well, which aircraft I would be wary of in a Spit XVI is a much shorter list.

As to your La-7 experience, I said equal pilot skill.  Skill being equal, the La-7 should dominate the P-47 or Mosquito, but in practice skill is usually not equal.

My point is that between the Spit and La7, a poorly managed La7 attacking a Jug tends to end up in front of 8 .50s, while a poorly managed Spit...still tends to turn well enough at low enough speeds that it gets the shot in before it goes sailing or just swaps ends and shoots you in the face if it does go sailing by. And can seemingly also bounce around like a squirrel on crystal meth during the guns defense phase without loosing all its maneuvering speed. The La7 is a monster ride in the right hands, don't get me wrong, but only the Spit seems to do so much to negate skill differences and allow many victories to be obtained despite gross mistakes.

Also, I don't follow how those aircraft are all double inferior to the Spit XVI.  The La-7 is, for example, much faster and has a similar climb rate and acceleration.  Certainly the F4Us don't accelerate well, but they are fast and very responsive.

Actually, I checked at Dokgonzo's site and the La7's climb rate is notably less at all altitudes than that of the SpitXVI. La7 does run away from fights much better than SpitXVIs though :-) Technically double superior/inferior refers to thrust weight/and wing loading (more properly: lift loading), not speed. These are apparently the traits considered most crucial to ACM by people who have studied it scientifically. You will note, modern fighters are actually *not* designed for the highest possible top speed at the expense of maneuverability anymore, and thrust/weight is considered *vital*.

The SpitXVI is similar to the unperked Hogs in speed, much superior in climb, accel, and turn rate. The Hog's clear one area of clear advantage is turn radius w/flaps. There is great deal of debate among skilled sticks about how these planes stack up. In a duel, I think a good XVI pilot who understands the Hog and his own ride will be able to out-angles the Hog until it begins using flaps to even out the angles fight, at which point the Spit should to use its power to switch to the vertical and gain the first shot opportunity.
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Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #138 on: April 29, 2009, 12:25:49 PM »
Well, which aircraft I would be wary of in a Spit XVI is a much shorter list.

In all honesty, I disagree.  Maybe its just the way I fly, but I feel far more confident in a 14 than a 16. 

The 14 can the ability to enter and exit most engagements at will and its vertical performance is awesome.

The 16, by contrast, can not.  Once the 16 is committed to the fight, its two options are (1) win or (2) lose.

I agree with some in this thread suggesting that instead of unperking the 14, we give it the proper amount of boost thereby clearly necessitating perk status.

Offline Cajunn

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #139 on: April 29, 2009, 12:30:17 PM »
In all honesty, I disagree.  Maybe its just the way I fly, but I feel far more confident in a 14 than a 16. 

The 14 can the ability to enter and exit most engagements at will and its vertical performance is awesome.

The 16, by contrast, can not.  Once the 16 is committed to the fight, its two options are (1) win or (2) lose.

I agree with some in this thread suggesting that instead of unperking the 14, we give it the proper amount of boost thereby clearly necessitating perk status.

You know I was reading and there were different variants of the supermarine Spitfire mk 14, some that could actually make 400 MPH at SL.
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Offline Kazaa

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #140 on: April 29, 2009, 12:54:23 PM »
I'm sure 390MPH at SL is with 25lbs of boost, with 21lbs it would do about 370MPH at sea level?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 01:08:39 PM by Kazaa »



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Offline Kazaa

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #141 on: April 29, 2009, 12:55:37 PM »
Double post.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 01:08:04 PM by Kazaa »



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Offline Karnak

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #142 on: April 29, 2009, 02:39:40 PM »
In all honesty, I disagree.  Maybe its just the way I fly, but I feel far more confident in a 14 than a 16. 
I was speaking of the Mosquito VI compared to the Spitfire XVI.
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Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #143 on: April 30, 2009, 08:20:33 AM »
I was speaking of the Mosquito VI compared to the Spitfire XVI.

Doh!  In which case I agree wholeheartedly.   :D
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 10:48:52 AM by Saurdaukar »

Offline Karnak

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #144 on: April 30, 2009, 09:45:58 AM »
I'm sure 390MPH at SL is with 25lbs of boost, with 21lbs it would do about 370MPH at sea level?
Probably more than that. I'd guess 375-380.
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Offline Kazaa

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #145 on: April 30, 2009, 11:03:57 AM »
At sea level, the XIV could do around 380-389 with 21lbs of boost.



« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 11:28:50 AM by Kazaa »



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Offline Kazaa

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #146 on: April 30, 2009, 11:05:04 AM »
Double post.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 11:07:53 AM by Kazaa »



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Offline Cajunn

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #147 on: April 30, 2009, 11:16:25 AM »
The XIV with 21lbs of boost could achieve 390 on deck with WEP :t

(Image removed from quote.)


The red line, is that the P-51B with 25lbs of thrust doing nearly 400 SL now that's a runstang.
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Offline Kazaa

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #148 on: April 30, 2009, 11:23:16 AM »
That's a Pony B !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 11:29:59 AM by Kazaa »



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Offline Cajunn

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Re: The SpitXIV conundrum
« Reply #149 on: April 30, 2009, 11:44:13 AM »
Then by the charts here the Spit 9 is the under achiever, because the version we have will only make around 318 MPH at SL with boost.
“The important thing [in tactics] is to suppress the enemy's useful actions but allow his useless actions. However, doing this alone is defensive.”

Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645)
Japanese Samurai & Philosopher