Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"

[Guppy35]

A few "fanatical" (in the worst sense of the word) spit fans have been yelling and screaming since the spit16 came out that "it's just a 1942 bird! It's too slow! How can we compete with anything in the late war planeset?!?!? WAAAAH!!!"

And repeating these cries (lies) ad nauseum for well over a year now.

When confronted with cold, hard, facts, these lies/cries become self-evident.

BnZs and I disagree on a LOT of things, but for once, he was spotting a sudden (and frequent) resurgence of these "spit16 is too slow!" lies as of late that I was also taking note of! He took the time to post about it and set things straight.

EDIT: Usually such threads include comments about adding +25 boosted spit14s or +28 boosted spit16s or whatever plane that would more than double the climb rate of a 109K, fly faster than a P51, and still turn as tightly as a spitV with 2 (or 4, depending on the request) single-hit-killer hispanos on the wings to boot. They justify adding these planes by saying the spit16 can't compete, being so "early" a model.

Just out of curiousity.  Can you quote me one of these fanatical Spit fans, and point me to a thread where they've claimed that?

Seriously.  I don't recall ever seeing that.

The more I think about your reply Krusty the more it bothers me.  Nothing you even said in there makes sense.  No one has ever claimed the Spit 16 was a 42 bird.  What it is, is the same thing as a 1943 LFIX with a clipped E wing of 44.  It's engine isn't rated to the late 44-45 boost. 

What is more distressing is how so many folks get their shorts in a bunch over Spitfires in general.  Who the heck cares.  Shoot em if you don't like em.  They're not any more real then the 190 that you spend so much time complaining about not being 'accurate'.  Turn your own silly comment back on yourself when you discuss your bird of choice. 

I take my trusty cartoon 1943 P38G out and fly lower then the Spits and hope they come down and fight.  Instead of whining about how much of a helicoptor they are or spouting all the BS about what's wrong with them, I just fight em.  You might want to try it.

No one is really dying, and the cartoon planes are free.

And that goes for the rest of you poor,  "The Spit 16' is ruining my fun crowd.  It's just a game for heaven's sake.  What a bunch of whiners.

[Karnak]

EDIT: Usually such threads include comments about adding +25 boosted spit14s or +28 boosted spit16s or whatever plane that would more than double the climb rate of a 109K, fly faster than a P51, and still turn as tightly as a spitV with 2 (or 4, depending on the request) single-hit-killer hispanos on the wings to boot. They justify adding these planes by saying the spit16 can't compete, being so "early" a model.

You are such a frickin' idiot.  You don't know, nor do you want to know, anything about the history of the aircraft.  You just want to mock, lie and spread bullnoodles.  Instead of actually paying attention to what people such as Guppy and myself have said, you choose to remain ignorant and make up your own ridiculous strawmen to declare victory over.

[moot]

Who the heck cares.  Shoot em if you don't like em. 
Instead of whining about how much of a helicoptor they are or spouting all the BS about what's wrong with them, I just fight em.  You might want to try it.

No one is really dying, and the cartoon planes are free.

QFT.  And that's coming from me  

[grizz441]

I really don't get these spit16 whine threads either.

Generally they are easy to kill and if I run into an average pilot who gives me a challenge, so what?  Isn't that a good thing? 

Now, if a huge percentage of vets were flying them all the time and throwing off the balance of the arena, that would be another thing, but that is so far from the truth of the matter that it's laughable this is a weekly topic.

[Ack-Ack]

I really don't get these spit16 whine threads either.

How does that saying go?  If you can't beat 'em, PERK THEM!


ack-ack

[Kev367th]

A few "fanatical" (in the worst sense of the word) spit fans have been yelling and screaming since the spit16 came out that "it's just a 1942 bird! It's too slow! How can we compete with anything in the late war planeset?!?!? WAAAAH!!!"

Actually NO.

What has been said is that it is the equivalent (barring the .50cals) of a 1943 LF IX, no idea where you got the 1942 from.

Usually in response to the perk the XVI whines.

The request for either a fully boosted XVI or XIV is usually based on giving the RAF a 1945 ride, as we haven't got the F.21.

No one has ever asked for XVI with 4x20mm, never flew in that config, although I HAVE seen requests for the V or IX with quad hispanos.

[edit] Personally - Leave the XVI and XIV (but unperk it), add the F.21 Perked.

[Kev367th]

Actually NO.

What has been said is that it is the equivalent (barring the .50cals) of a 1943 LF IX, no idea where you got the 1942 from.

Usually in response to the perk the XVI whines.

The request for either a fully boosted XVI or XIV is usually based on giving the RAF a 1945 ride, as we haven't got the F.21.

No one has ever asked for XVI with 4x20mm, never flew in that config, although I HAVE seen requests for the V or IX with quad hispanos.
Also never seen a request for a 25lbs Spit XIV OR 28lbs XVI. No idea where you are getting your figures from, correct would be 25lbs XVI, 21lbs XIV.

[edit] Personally - Leave the XVI and XIV (but unperk it), add the F.21 Perked.

[BnZs]

Once again, Krusty states his case in words I would rather not use...but he's not wrong...

Karnak: Is the best argument you can come up with that I have some sort of irrational hatred for a fighter airplane that went out of service decades before I was born? That is just sad. For the record, no, I don't have a German grandfather who was killed by a Spitfire in the BoB, (family came to America from Britain in the 1700s), nor have me and mine ever had some sort of dark and running feud with R.J. Mitchell...IOW, your "irrational hatred remark" is farting through your mouth, nothing more.

Here it is in a nutshell...

BnZ: "Gee, Anaxagoras whacked me over the head with the numbers. Turns out the Spit16 is not just another relatively slow t'n'b plane like I thought it was, in my ignorance. Turns out the SpitXVI is faster than 70% of unperked fighters while out-turning, out-climbing, out-accelerating, and out-rolling many, many of those. Maybe we could increase the viability and fun of flying a wider variety of fighters in the MA by lightly perking the SpitXVI"

--Now tell me what is irrational about that?

Karnak, et. al. "Being able to out-climb, out-turn and retain energy under Gs better other planes in a SpitIX/SpitVIII while sporting Hispanos is not enough advantage for Spitfire fans! They also should be able to run down many planes vastly inferior in wing-loading and thrust/weight AND out-roll them at 400mph!"

--This sounds like what you are saying to me. You've expressed concern about fighters "strolling away" from Spitfires. Myself, I think it is perfectly fair gameplay for the planes that are at a turn and climb advantage to at least be able to extend.

BnZ: "Okay, say you're a Corsair fan. But there is a big problem, too many LW monsters with their speed and acceleration can just "stroll away" from any F4U-1 variant. Therefore, unperk the F4U-4."

People on this thread who think I'm crazy to say the SpitXVI should be lightly perked: "You're crazy as hell, F4U-4 is the best plane in the game, it is double-superior to most the plane set....."

--Huh, hypocritical much?

Find one such post.  I dare you.

You acused me of such just the other day because you are too stupid to be able to read, not because I posted that.


And I never even used the effing thing.  It isn't my bird.

You and BnZ are bleeping irrational when it comes your your mindless hatred of Spitfires.

[BnZs]

1. I take being called an "obsessed mind" an insult when I have perfectly rational reasons for what I ask for.

2. I don't see why it is a "futile quest". Perk status has changed before. HTC listened to reason regarding the perk status of the Ta-152...what, it doesn't work both ways?

3. What is HTC's definition of "perk status"? No one has ever put forth a good definition of this, nor of "unbalancing". The 20% usage benchmark has been thrown out there, but no one is willing to stand by it, probably because they realize you could unperk *anything* currently perked and it would probably not claim 20% of MA sorties consistently.

There is not a single insult in my comment.
You seem to be on a mission to get the 16 perked as your ever increasing number of threads and posts about that topic do show. And it's you that is still completely ignoring HTC's own definition of "perk status" and the reality of LW MA combat.


As far as this topic is concerned, I'm outta here.

[bj229r]

The spit16 coming out was a boon for me, as many Lgay drivers switched to the better all-round plane, but one which is a bit slower than the Lgay, a plane for which that I find no solutions.  (in a P47 down low, which is where a disturbingly large number of my missions come to a painful end)--The spit I can mebbe do a couple things with, including 'extending'
The ONLY rides a 16 is slower than are b&z rides which it would chew up once their speed was knocked down a bit, I can't see the cause for any complaints among it devotees

[Steve]

Spixteen is probably the best overall of the unperked planeset. The thing is, some plane has to be the best. What are we going to perk next?

[BnZs]

The spit16 coming out was a boon for me, as many Lgay drivers switched to the better all-round plane, but one which is a bit slower than the Lgay, a plane for which that I find no solutions.  (in a P47 down low, which is where a disturbingly large number of my missions come to a painful end)--The spit I can mebbe do a couple things with, including 'extending'
The ONLY rides a 16 is slower than are b&z rides which it would chew up once their speed was knocked down a bit, I can't see the cause for any complaints among it devotees

The Spit16 is as fast or faster than all P-47Ds at typical MA altitudes. It is more lethal than the La7 in guns, rolls better, turns far far better than the La7. The La7 is technically a superior turner to the Jug as well, but in reality, its handling is far below that of a Spitfire as flown by most. I easily destroy or put to flight La7s who engage my Jug more often than they get me. So your post is illogical...you are essentially saying you prefer a plane which can run you down and which ridiculously out-classes you as a knife-fighter as well vs. a  plane that can run you down also, but is a much more difficult handling plane which can often be made to loose the knife-fight through basic ACM? This does not make sense to me.

For the record, I think the La7 technically deserves a light perk price as well, but comparing what it can do in average hands vs. the whole plane set compared to what the Spit16 can do, it is not as needful of a perk price.

[Ack-Ack]

What are we going to perk next?

The other planes that keep shooting BnZ down probably.


ack-ack

[BnZs]

Spixteen is probably the best overall of the unperked planeset. The thing is, some plane has to be the best. What are we going to perk next?

In fact, one unperked plane does *not* have to be the out-and-out best to the degree the SpitXVI is. Just about every other plane you can name has some great strength as a fighter, but some serious flaws to go with it. P-51? Fast, zooms well. But out-climbed by a huge portion of the plane set and out-turned by nearly all of it. F4U-1A? Fast, rolls well, turns well. Climbs and accelerates poorly though and the guns are mediocre. 109 K-4? Brilliant in performance. Not a great turner, hard to hit with gun, rotten visibility, looses control authority in dives. D9? Brilliant plane except for the fact it is almost the worst turner of the entire set. N1K? Wonderful firepower, wonderful turn, but it is well and truly slow and rolls like a pig. HurriIIC? Absolutely wonderful in every way, except it is too slow to catch a cold. Ki-84? Nearly as good as the SpitXVI turn/performance, but not as lethal, does not roll as well, and loose parts in high-speed dives. I could go on, but you get the point.

 It is not that the SpitXVI is a "jack of all trades" plane, a little good at everything. This would be more true of planes like the F6F, SpitIX, or P-38. No, the Spit16 is top-of-the-line at everything as a fighter, except for top speed where it is merely good.

[BnZs]

The other planes that keep shooting BnZ down probably.


ack-ack

You are quite plainly incapable of coming up a logical rebuttal or of adding anything useful to the discussion. But instead of keeping your foul and useless little thoughts to yourself, to result to the safest of all yellow-bellied ploys, insult and lies on the internet. I weep for you.