Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"

[shreck]

that's cause the Spit VIII will hold off stalling and dropping a wing longer then the XVI due to the full span wing.  If I get in a turn fight with a 16, more often then not he'll drop a wing first, have to level out and nose down and he's dead.

Yes he is, isn't he! 

[moot]

Furballs are easily the most prevalent regime in the arenas. A spit16 in a furball can't run away. Not when (e.g.) said D9s aren't turning (since that's fatal) and readily available to nab spit16s (which, given the "players" context, aren't managing their E well enough to really stay fast) if they tried to run.  The 16 is just too slow.  

[shreck]

Spit16 is a MONSTER, no doubt! Although I would say very very few folks can convert its potential into success! It is NOT a killer for all who choose it, just more airplane debris to be scattered to the online winds. I say this cause I never fly spits, "on the very rare occasion maybe the spit14", Last friday during FSO I got to fly spit8, I was very much a "fish out of water" and couldn't make it work for me! Its uberness is kinda like the corsairs, probably the best set of planes in the game, though it takes some know how to exploit it!

Now once you have the "know how" or "das skills" your a tard for using it  

[BnZs]

Furballs are easily the most prevalent regime in the arenas. A spit16 in a furball can't run away. Not when (e.g.) said D9s aren't turning (since that's fatal) and readily available to nab spit16s (which, given the "players" context, aren't managing their E well enough to really stay fast) if they tried to run.  The 16 is just too slow.  

Moot, players may make poor choices and get into corners that make them fight or die in any aircraft. This really doesn't have anything to do with my point about relative plane performance. If you are going to argue that "x" airplane should not be considered for perkage on the basis that many unskilled pilots fly it, does that conversely mean that the P-38J/Ta-152 should be considered for perkage because they are flown by exceedingly skilled pilots?

 Also, if you will note, one of our perk planes (the F4U-1C) is largely slower than the SpitXVI, and many other unperked rides. The SpitXIV (361mph OTD) is caught by several non-perkers, and even the mighty Tempest is vulnerable to a good diver converting alt to speed and forcing it to turn and fight. If the definition of a perk plane is that it makes one invulnerable to bad choices/bad situations, then nothing is worthy of perking.

No, the SpitXVI is not a speed demon, that is why I wouldn't make the perk price for it any more than 5 points or so.

[Kazaa]

BnZs, were you on the debait team by any chance?

[Steve]

BnZs, where you on the debait team by any chance?

Yes and when he lost, he told the judges how stupid they were.   

[Rich46yo]

BnZs, where you on the debait team by any chance?

He won when all the opposition said "screw it" and went home.

[moot]

Debait

BNZ - The bottom line is that the XVI is too slow in practice. Theory doesn't matter if it never materializes.  The 152 and 38J ought to be perked if enough skilled pilots flew it to unbalance gameplay enough, yes.  That's not the case though. Just like the XVI isn't used and abused enough to unbalance gameplay.  And this is coming from someone with not much more than distaste for em.

I don't know about the chog. I think the firepower on that platform (best flaps in the game, etc, we've covered this already) is enough. Borderline, but enough.  I personally don't really care except that it would most likely really skew useage off CVs (at least).

That the Temp (or 262 - viz 38s, 47s, 51s, etc) is vulnerable to many of the other planes doesn't change the rest of the picture.  It still is the punchiest accelerator all the way to arguably the fastest top prop-driven speed bar-none, has 4 high ROF cannons with excellent ballistics, excellent visibility, can carry 2klbs, isn't restricted to a narrow altitude range for these abilities, etc.  You aren't taking things in the full context.  In the full practical context the XVI is just too slow to be perk worthy.  There's no way to spin this one.  It's a holistic assessment.

Or not worth more than 1-2 perks anyway.  Definitely not 3 perks.

[BnZs]

Yes and when he lost, he told the judges how stupid they were.   

Indeed Steve, adopting an M.O. similar to that of those monkeys who sit in trees and fling feces at passers-by can cause others to make assumptions about said "monkey's" capacity to do anything else.

[BnZs]

BNZ - The bottom line is that the XVI is too slow in practice. Theory doesn't matter if it never materializes.  The 152 and 38J ought to be perked if enough skilled pilots flew it to unbalance gameplay enough, yes.

I find this a very odd and unreasonable notion...you would perk the 152 and 38J under certain circumstances, even though their inherent advantages over the rest of the set is less than that of many other planes? 

That the Temp (or 262 - viz 38s, 47s, 51s, etc) is vulnerable to many of the other planes doesn't change the rest of the picture.  It still is the punchiest accelerator all the way to arguably the fastest top prop-driven speed bar-none, has 4 high ROF cannons with excellent ballistics, excellent visibility, can carry 2klbs, isn't restricted to a narrow altitude range for these abilities, etc.  You aren't taking things in the full context.  In the full practical context the XVI is just too slow to be perk worthy.  There's no way to spin this one.  It's a holistic assessment.

That sounds like the difference between an airplane that needs to be perked at 60 or so and one that needs to be perked at most 5 Moot. I must point out that a perk price like the Tempest is carrying almost guarantees that most people will not fly it into ack as an ord truck...not with its vulnerable radiator.

[hitech]

Hitech, I think it is fairly clear what I'm saying. When you have an aircraft like the SpitXVI or La7, able to run down so many other fighters while simultaneously out-turning, out-climbing, and, in the case of the SpitXVI, even out-rolling them, and when it lacks any severe weaknesses that mitigate its a2a abilities like a dive limitation or a weak gun package, I think there is a good chance it should be perked. I can not see why that concept is so hard to understand or why it is considered unreasonable.

EDIT: Just to illustrate the opposite side of the coin, if you had a fighter that was insanely popular but was not superior to many types in  speed, E-building, AND turn performance, I'd say it does not need perking. The P-51D actually comes close to being just that. And I can understand certain special cases, like perking the C-Hog so that *something else* will actually be seen coming off carriers.

I am out of here, you can not even state the goal of what you are trying to accomplish. (other than to get rid of the spit 16) Have fun talking to yourself, because if you can not even state what your real goal is, I can not begin to discuss the pro's and cons with you.

[moot]

I find this a very odd and unreasonable notion...you would perk the 152 and 38J under certain circumstances, even though their inherent advantages over the rest of the set is less than that of many other planes? 

They would unbalance gameplay. Which is what the perk system is about. Pragmatic over principle.

That sounds like the difference between an airplane that needs to be perked at 60 or so and one that needs to be perked at most 5 Moot. I must point out that a perk price like the Tempest is carrying almost guarantees that most people will not fly it into ack as an ord truck...not with its vulnerable radiator.

Ord truck isn't really relevant. That's not why it's perked.
You do admit that the spitXVI isn't worth more than 5 perks though.  So really, here, the difference between you and others is no more than how much the spitXVI is worth. I think it's worth no more than 2 perks, and even that's a lot. 1 perk would be what I'd give it, if not for the fact that I think the XVI is better off unperked.  You think it's worth 5, not 10 or 20.  Everyone else concurs that it's as near to perk worthy as any other plane, but, all things considered, thinks it's worth zero.

So maybe you ought to try and change your approach.  Demonstrate how the arena would be better off with a spit16 perked at 1, 2, or 5 points.
And/or answer HT's question.

[Ack-Ack]

that's cause the Spit VIII will hold off stalling and dropping a wing longer then the XVI due to the full span wing.  If I get in a turn fight with a 16, more often then not he'll drop a wing first, have to level out and nose down and he's dead.

Yep, those clipped wings come at a price and that's a not so stellar low to stall speed performance.  One of the tactics I like to use is to drag a Spitfire Mk XVI to the deck and get the fight into the low/stall speed range and use the Cloverleaf, 9 out of 10 times, the XVI has to bug out and try to extend for energy after the 3rd "leaf".


ack-ack

[grizz441]

I am out of here, you can not even state the goal of what you are trying to accomplish. (other than to get rid of the spit 16) Have fun talking to yourself, because if you can not even state what your real goal is, I can not begin to discuss the pro's and cons with you.

He wants the Spit16 to have a perk price of 3-5 HiTech.

[Raptor]

If the spit16 had an ord load similar to the f4u or p51, it would deserve a perk because it would then be used even more which would cause an unbalance. Does that answer your question as to why it is not perked?