Pony and Corsair help

[Cipher2]

              OK, so here's the deal. Whenever I have someone on my six, and I'm flying a Pony or an F4U, I just can't shake him. No matter what. And then, 5 seconds later, BOOM, I'm dead! I don't know what the deal is, but I do know that I need some serious Pony and Corsair help. Basically, I need to know the best way to shake someone. Any advice you can give will be greatly appreciated. I really like both these planes, but I can't kill anyone when I'm the one getting killed. Please help me.

                          -With thanks,
                            Cipher2 : 

[Saxman]

Best thing is to not let them get there in the first place.

You also need to be a tad more specific, because what you do depends on the situation. What are they flying? Are they faster than you? Slower? Above you? Co-alt? Below? What altitude? What's their range?

Both aircraft accelerate very well in a dive, don't shed parts, and retain control authority (especially the F4U's rudder authority and rate of roll) at very high speeds. If all else fails, depending on the opponent you might be able to dive out. Neither aircraft have a remarkable sustained rate of climb, but if you have some speed and distance to work with you might be able to extend with a low-angle high-speed climb as they both also retain E very well.

As modeled, the Corsair gives you a few more options as far as maneuvering goes, but a lot depends on the opponent and range. If you're up against an enemy where you have a clear turning advantage (Typhoon, Tempest, P-51, P-47, 190s, etc) you can execute a sharp low yo-yo under them at even very close distances (600-800yds) as more often than not they won't be able to turn with the Corsair. This can also work against opponents that are coming in with a TON of E, as well. Even opponents that can out-turn the F4U may not be able to acquire a firing solution without scrubbing a bunch of airspeed to do so. When you enter your yo-yo do it breaking INTO them (so if they're on your right, break right and low to pull through under them). Pull through into a straight loop or high-yo and start rolling to keep them centered in your up/forward-up view. Use a notch of flaps and kick inside rudder. I reverse a LOT of bandits this way. At the very least it ought to buy you a little time and separation.

[StokesAk]

Good tactic in many planes, if you put full flaps out and start to turn up into a very high climb and keep circiling the person on your 6 will loose E behind and below you and now be able to get a gun solution on you. All you have to do is keep it up until the other planes stalls. When he stalls all you have to do is go full rudder and roll your plane over on him throwing you on his 6. Works well with the Spitfires.

****>> Do not try this with a F4U, 109K4, A6M or a Ki84 on your 6 as they will most likely be able to out preform you.

Also if you get a chance post of vid of this situation and we can help define the problem more and come up with a more definate solution.

[uptown]

Don't fly straight and predictable. Barrel roll, juke,....anything that don't allow them to get a good gun solution on you. Even just dipping your wings works alot of times.
One of the advantages of flying a P51 is everyone thinks the pony will run away. So the bad guy is always full throttle after you.When he's getting close (400-600), chop throttle and barrel roll to allow the enemy to fly by. Drop in behind him and pepper him with the 50 cals of love  Scissors also works well. Several even spaced ones to get him timing your moves then a long or short one to throw him off and go vertical enough to drop behind or away from him.

[Cajunn]

0 G Dive..........a lot of planes can match the speed in the dive, not a lot of planes can match the turn at that speed!

The pony and Hog or two different planes also! They both have different strengths, I would suggest picking one and flying it. In the pony keep the speed up try to never let it get to slow its a lot better with some speed behind it. Hog, find a good trainer and learn to use the flaps and throttle, its as good slow as it is with speed when you learn to handle it.   

[Anaxogoras]

You also need to be a tad more specific, because what you do depends on the situation. What are they flying? Are they faster than you? Slower? Above you? Co-alt? Below? What altitude? What's their range?

In some cases, you can save yourself the trouble by rolling level and giving him an easy shot to get it over with, e.g. if you you're low and slow with an A6M5 on your tail.

[Steve]

Being defensive in these two planes is actually pretty complicated, compared to many other rides.

Assuming you are referring to a plane that is basically saddled up on you:

The hog's unparalleled flaps and rudder really give it some options but take  quite a long time to really become proficient in. Sax gives good advice but I don't think there is any way to really get the question answered in text. Fortunately for you Cipher, there are several dedicated hog drivers who are straight up killers. Most of these guys are also very willing to help a new stick.

Being defensive in a 51 leaves you with limited options, as they relate strictly to plane performance. In a 51, beyond pointing the nose down and hoping to outrun the guy, you are gonna have to be experienced enough to "do some of that pilot chit" to effectively scrub someone(anyone with even a little skill) off your 6.

Unfortunately, there are lots of 51 pilots but very few good ones. The 51 attracts a lot of noobs due to it's proliferation in WWII and it's speed. The downside to this is that many noobs get in the pony and fly it so timidly that they can never manage to get more than 2 or 3 kills an hour, and they never actually get in any good fights which is where the most fun  is to be had. They bushwhack and then run away at 500 MPH, never really improving their skills. Please don't be one of these, there's more than enough of them already.

Also, take each snippet of advice with a grain of salt.  For instance this paragraph will get you killed if you are defensive( a plane close aboard your 6):

Good tactic in many planes, if you put full flaps out and start to turn up into a very high climb and keep circiling the person on your 6 will loose E behind and below you and now be able to get a gun solution on you. All you have to do is keep it up until the other planes stalls. When he stalls all you have to do is go full rudder and roll your plane over on him throwing you on his 6. Works well with the Spitfires

This is a spiral rope and is an offensive maneuver. With a bad guy near to a solution on your 6, this will quickly get you shot down unless you have significantly more E, but then if you do, you really aren't defensive in the first place which is what this thread is about.   This is a new person trying to help, but giving very bad advice.

Happy hunting!   

[Obie303]

Starting out, keep the pony and corsair fast.  Don't get into a turning fight.  Other than that, we need more specifics to be of more help.

[texastc316]

I fly the hogs quite a bit, but by no means am I an expert. so take this for what its worth. but 2 very effective defensive moves that work excellent in a hog are the barrel roll and the split S. depending on E state and altitude. hi e and low alt, if I have enoufg room. ill split S. if bandit has e advantage, he normally can't follow move, unless its steve. if its steve, just bail. 

[whiteman]

I live off the barrel roll defence, to get fights some days you need to use your 6 as bait and it's a nice way to get them on your 6 and on there's in a turn or two with the aid of the flaps and rudder. Hurris and A6ms are the only two I won't use it against, 2 turns at most and extend and try again with them.

[Cipher2]

Well, to be more specific, it might just be me, but it seems that alot of the times I get shot down, it's up against another pony or cosair. Or another one of those good high speed fighters. It's starting to look like all I really need is more practice. After all, i've only been playing AH for three months tops. Thanks for the advice, and any more advice is appreciated.

[texastc316]

keep at it. takes awhile to learn what the plane will do. ponies and hogs have their strengths and weaknesses. find out how far you can push it, and when not to

[Steve]

I almost forgot.  Go to the TA with a trainer. They are very patient and thorough when explaining maneuvers. Just a few trips in there and you will notice a significant boost in your abilities. You are never to experienced to go into the TA and learn.

[whiteman]

3 months, took me a year to learn the F4U. keep hugging along and it will click one day.

[TonyJoey]

Good tactic in many planes, if you put full flaps out and start to turn up into a very high climb and keep circiling the person on your 6 will loose E behind and below you and now be able to get a gun solution on you. All you have to do is keep it up until the other planes stalls. When he stalls all you have to do is go full rudder and roll your plane over on him throwing you on his 6. Works well with the Spitfires.

****>> Do not try this with a F4U, 109K4, A6M or a Ki84 on your 6 as they will most likely be able to out preform you.

Also if you get a chance post of vid of this situation and we can help define the problem more and come up with a more definate solution.

Like steve said, this will get you killed quickly seeing as the enemy plane is going anywhere near your speed, as all the opposonent will have to do is pull up a bit for an easy kill.