Author Topic: What's the Brewster?  (Read 4641 times)

Offline Bronk

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2009, 08:04:36 PM »
no disrespect but only a small number use the early & mid war arenas & the buffalo would be a flying coffin in the late war arena. i think it's a waste

Run into slapshot in an FM-2... then as your sitting in the tower try to imagine him in a more agile FM-2. :D
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Offline Wingnutt

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2009, 08:11:48 PM »
well for 300 perks, you can spawn a full sized buffalo in a selected opponents living room.

If the buffalo either defecates in the living room, or does extensive damage to the house before the opposing player manages to remove it from the home, you don't lose any perks.







Offline Wingnutt

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2009, 08:14:25 PM »
Run into slapshot in an FM-2... then as your sitting in the tower try to imagine him in a more agile FM-2. :D

the FM2 is lethal, should you choose to fight it..  there in lies the rub, if things get dicey.. it can be ran from by just about anything.  I flew the FM2 quit a bit for a tour and thats what annoyed me to the point of dropping it from my "line up"  you can put alot of work into a fight only to have your opponent simply... leave.

Offline PFactorDave

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2009, 08:24:21 PM »
the FM2 is lethal, should you choose to fight it..  there in lies the rub, if things get dicey.. it can be ran from by just about anything.  I flew the FM2 quit a bit for a tour and thats what annoyed me to the point of dropping it from my "line up"  you can put alot of work into a fight only to have your opponent simply... leave.

This is true of the A6Ms also.  I used to fly the A6M5 a lot, love the plane...  But it's too darn slow in the LW Arenas.

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Offline Saxman

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2009, 08:28:19 PM »
no disrespect but only a small number use the early & mid war arenas & the buffalo would be a flying coffin in the late war arena. i think it's a waste

Axis vs. Allies. Scenarios. Snapshots. FSO. The latter three ESPECIALLY comprise a significant part of the game, and all would benefit from aircraft like this and other early-war rides. Competitiveness in the Late War arenas neither is nor should be a criteria.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Motherland

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2009, 08:31:51 PM »
the FM2 is lethal, should you choose to fight it..  there in lies the rub, if things get dicey.. it can be ran from by just about anything.  I flew the FM2 quit a bit for a tour and thats what annoyed me to the point of dropping it from my "line up"  you can put alot of work into a fight only to have your opponent simply... leave.
That's the challenge of flying a midwar plane. For the most part, you can easily outmaneuver your opponent. But you can't just bank and yank, you have to wear down your opponent's E state intelligently to ensure they don't have a get away. If your opponent is smart (or timid), they'll run, climb and re-engage, until they can get you to make a mistake and shoot you... if they're not they'll stay in and die. I always enjoy these types of fights no matter which side of it I'm on.

Offline Die Hard

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2009, 08:47:50 PM »
Altitude is the great equalizer.
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

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Offline fudgums

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2009, 09:55:22 PM »
no disrespect but only a small number use the early & mid war arenas & the buffalo would be a flying coffin in the late war arena. i think it's a waste

really, how? just because it doesnt live up to "main arena" status? I fly the P39 in the LW all the time and it kicks arse. i see people land kills in P40s most of the time.

So really, how is it a waste?
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Offline Saxman

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2009, 09:58:48 PM »
That's the challenge of flying a midwar plane. For the most part, you can easily outmaneuver your opponent. But you can't just bank and yank, you have to wear down your opponent's E state intelligently to ensure they don't have a get away. If your opponent is smart (or timid), they'll run, climb and re-engage, until they can get you to make a mistake and shoot you... if they're not they'll stay in and die. I always enjoy these types of fights no matter which side of it I'm on.

My favorite part is landing 7-8 kills in the FM-2 in the DA and watching the Tempest Dweebs go  :O :O :O :furious :furious :furious :cry :cry :cry

:D
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Demetrious

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2009, 10:30:03 PM »
Well, this is quite awesome. I didn't realize we were getting the Brewster. It's a favorite of mine. But which one are we getting- the F2A-2, or the B-239 export version?

The U.S. F2A version was a disappointment, but mostly due to weighing down the aircraft with armor and naval equipment. The Finnish export B-239 version was lighter and much more agile. I fully expect it to be a Zeke-killer in-game.

These are lies, and they make me sadface. The F2A-2 Buffalos in service with the US Navy had significantly more engine power that more then made up for their greater weight. The B-239s purchased by the Finns were modified export versions with 950hp engines, nearly every Buffalo used by the Americans were F2A-2s with 1200 horsepower engines. I'd put the performance advantage firmly with the F2A, but the lighter weight of the B-239 meant it wasn't very far behind in that regard.

From Wikipedia:

Quote
Plagued by production difficulties, Brewster only delivered 11 F2A-1 aircraft to the Navy; the remainder of the order was later diverted to the Finnish Air Force in modified form as the B-239E (export). A later variant, the F2A-2 (Model B-339), of which 43 were ordered by the U.S. Navy, included a more powerful R-1820-40 engine of 1,200 hp (895 kw), a better propeller, and integral flotation gear, but still lacked pilot armor and self-sealing fuel tanks... The Brewster aircraft sent to Finland were de-navalised (lightened) F2A-1 Buffaloes given the export designation Model B-239, fitted with an export-approved Wright R-1820-G5 9-cylinder engine of 950 hp (708 kw).[35] As the B-239 was a de-navalised F2A-1, it lacked self-sealing tanks and pilot armor. Before shipment, the Brewster Aeronautical Company personnel removed the naval fittings on the aircraft, such as arrestor hook and life raft container, resulting in a somewhat lighter aircraft.[36] The Finns added an armored backrest for the pilot, metric instrumentation, the Finnish Väisälä T.h.m.40 gunsight, and four .50 in (12.7 mm) machine guns.

As you can see, the Buffalo's used by the US had more engine power, and the weight reduction in the B-239 was somewhat offset by the addition of armored plate and the four .50s.

The B-239 had a power/weight ratio of .16 hp/lb, and the F2A-2, .20hp/lb. The F2A-2 was 5,942 lbs, the B-239, 5,808.

For you Buffalo haters out there, it would behoove you to note that of the early war rides, the Buffalo was the only American fighter that had a good power/weight ratio (better then the A6M2, which had one of .18hp/lb, and competitive with the 109E,) and a decent climb rate. In addition to this it turned well and had a very good roll rate. To be honest, I'd rather have an F2A-2 then a P-40.

My question is, which Buffalo are we getting? Are we getting the F2A-2, or the B-239 Finnish export variant? They'd both be good, but for obvious reasons I lust for the F2A-2. With any luck we can get both- the differences in the modeling shouldn't be more drastic then adjusting weight/power parameters, and perhaps center of balance as well.


Offline Enker

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2009, 10:34:45 PM »
Well, this is quite awesome. I didn't realize we were getting the Brewster. It's a favorite of mine. But which one are we getting- the F2A-2, or the B-239 export version?

These are lies, and they make me sadface. The F2A-2 Buffalos in service with the US Navy had significantly more engine power that more then made up for their greater weight. The B-239s purchased by the Finns were modified export versions with 950hp engines, nearly every Buffalo used by the Americans were F2A-2s with 1200 horsepower engines. I'd put the performance advantage firmly with the F2A, but the lighter weight of the B-239 meant it wasn't very far behind in that regard.

From Wikipedia:

As you can see, the Buffalo's used by the US had more engine power, and the weight reduction in the B-239 was somewhat offset by the addition of armored plate and the four .50s.

The B-239 had a power/weight ratio of .16 hp/lb, and the F2A-2, .20hp/lb. The F2A-2 was 5,942 lbs, the B-239, 5,808.

For you Buffalo haters out there, it would behoove you to note that of the early war rides, the Buffalo was the only American fighter that had a good power/weight ratio (better then the A6M2, which had one of .18hp/lb, and competitive with the 109E,) and a decent climb rate. In addition to this it turned well and had a very good roll rate. To be honest, I'd rather have an F2A-2 then a P-40.

My question is, which Buffalo are we getting? Are we getting the F2A-2, or the B-239 Finnish export variant? They'd both be good, but for obvious reasons I lust for the F2A-2. With any luck we can get both- the differences in the modeling shouldn't be more drastic then adjusting weight/power parameters, and perhaps center of balance as well.


Based on Pyro's previous request for info on the B-239, I am guessing we will be getting the B-239.
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Offline Demetrious

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2009, 10:50:16 PM »
Based on Pyro's previous request for info on the B-239, I am guessing we will be getting the B-239.

Too bad, then. The B-239 wasn't shabby, but the F2A-2 would be an early-war bird that can actually perform. :(

Offline Guppy35

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2009, 11:10:38 PM »
no disrespect but only a small number use the early & mid war arenas & the buffalo would be a flying coffin in the late war arena. i think it's a waste

Good think you aren't in charge then.  Some folks like the challenge of 'flying coffins' in the LW arena.  Not everything has to be latest and greatest.
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Offline Saxman

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2009, 11:59:37 PM »
Too bad, then. The B-239 wasn't shabby, but the F2A-2 would be an early-war bird that can actually perform. :(

Double too bad, because it was NOT the F2A-2 that saw combat. The American Buffaloes at Midway was the much heavier and underpowered F2A-3, (~1200hp and 6700lbs loaded) and the export model used by the RAF and Dutch was the same aircraft.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 12:04:00 AM by Saxman »
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Bruv119

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Re: What's the Brewster?
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2009, 12:44:00 AM »
funny how the people who know how to fly and fight (ACM)  have no problem with this fine aircraft being added. 

Listen up to what WW and Guppy said kids.   This thing if it can turn (which it will) will be able to beat most of the AH population.  4x 50 cals from 200 or less will need minimum ammo to kill a fighter see  P51B or F4F. 

So if you can shoot and turn your onto a winner.  I'm all for more minority planes and not well known US rides.  Think early French stuff, maybe another italian ride.  There are plenty of Russian and Japanese planes to do aswell.  I'm guessing the only reason HTC hasn't modelled this lot already is not having 100% bulletproof (excuse the pun) plane schematics and performance data.

Would you rather have a game that is HTC's best attempt at perfection? or a game filled with loads of different planes that all perform very similiar and based on guesswork (BORING).  The amount of hours it must take to get these cartoon planes flying anywhere near what they did in reality i'm sure is a pain staking process. 

If I hear anymore  "hangar queen"  or "but but  what about the X,Y,Z  plane it will be l33t"  I will take your name and hunt you down with this little brewster and make your day.    ;)
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