Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel

[eddiek]

Ape, it's an imperfect world.

Can you prove they weren't pirates?  Everything about them was suspicious enough for the RN to choose to investigate, and wow, they found weaponry consistent with what pirates have been using.

You're protestations, intentional or not, lead me to believe you are pro-pirate.  What did they lose, really?  They were detained, not held captive, not held for ransom.  Their weapons were sent to the bottom of the gulf, big deal.  Their masters will rearm them.
At worst, they got a soft paddling on the bottom like one gives a 2 year old, with a firm "No!  Don't do that again!" and sent on their way.

Have you thought about the crewmen of the vessels hijacked already?  Being held captive for no other reason than ransom money?  All they were doing was their jobs.  What about their families?  Do you think about them, or are you so focused on the possibility that men whose behavior, location, and choice to arm themselves with weapons used for hijacking had their liberties "violated"?

Help me out here, I'm trying to see your side.

[Apeotomy]

The burden of proof is always on the one making the claim. Thus, you scream, Pirates! I ask for proof, you don't have proof? They aren't pirates.

Tools x=x Pirates

My personal weapons are of the same sort as those used by bank robbers this does not mean I am a bank robber.

The next point is very bad when we use logic, for example. "You're dialogue, intentional or not, combined with your lack of proof, leads me to believe that you are pro-totalitarian state. See, this point can be flipped any which way.

What did they loose? They lost much property including a boat which for the average Somalian is a very expensive venture. And they were detained, without committing a crime. The modern day witch-hunt.

Again, you assume they are pirates.

Yes, but have I ever said that I advocate piracy? No. I have not.

Being held captive undermines my very motives, By holding someone against their will you remove their intrinsic right to self.

[froger]

See Rule #5

[thrila]

apeotomoy, you say you own the same weapons as those preferred by bank robbers.  Tell me, do you wield these weapons whilst wearing a balaclava at you local bank?  What logical conclusion do you think the bank staff and security guards would come to if you did this.

[Die Hard]

[Apeotomy]

why is this forum not closed yet ?

look the forum rules up APE.....

it's called baiting ....dragging out the topic.


time to shut it !

I have not baited anyone.

If you feel I have report me to the board administrator. Do not be a backseat moderator mmmkay?

If dragging out the topic means that I am discussing this in a decent fashion, then to this charge I plead guilty.

Surely you should not be the one complaining about board rules abuses? Considering your last couple of posts in this thread have been nothing than 1 ups.

My question still stands, Exactly when and where did these men commit piracy.

Thrilla, Yes, I have transported a weapon on a roadway, I have driven past a bank while doing so. Should I have my car blown up and my weapons seized? The similarities of these two situations are faint. The men did not enter a ship (in your version a bank) nor did they taunt a ship with their weapons.

[thrila]

The analogy isn't faint at all.  You are free to enter a bank but you cannot board another vessel, being in the vicinity of commercial shipping is similar to being in a bank.  The act of boarding a ship would be akin to climbing over the bank's counter.  Despite being free to own all these items, having a combination of these in your possession in combination of acting suspiciously is going to land you in trouble.  A chap wearing a balaclava and brandishing a shotgun in a bank is highly suspicious, as is a skiff loaded with weapons and grappling hooks in the vicinity of commercial shipping.

A person's intentions are clear if they cannot give a reasonable explanation why they are equipped with items to commit a crime.  Such as is a man with leather gloves, a screwdriver and wire cutters being caught loitering in a car park by a police officer.  The Royal Navy would have given the chaps in the skiffs the opportunity to explain their items, they must not have given a reasonable explanation.

They did not commit piracy, they were however equipped for piracy, thus making their boat a pirate vessel-  their intentions were clear to the world with the exeption of yourself and diehard.

If your car and items were seized and destroyed because the law stated that was the punishment for being equipped then yes i would support it. 

[Die Hard]

The analogy isn't faint at all.  You are free to enter a bank but you cannot board another vessel, being in the vicinity of commercial shipping is similar to being in a bank.  The act of boarding a ship would be akin to climbing over the bank's counter. 

Nonsense. Being in international waters is similar to being in a public place... like a street or a park. A bank is private property and the bank's owner decides if you can carry guns there or not... most don't, and thus entering a bank armed is similar to boarding a merchant ship; you're trespassing on private property. A bank does not own the street in front of it, and a merchant ship does not own the sea around it. Everyone has the right to sail in international waters, no matter how many commercial ships are nearby, just like everyone has the right to walk on a street.

[thrila]

ok, my analogy of a person equipped for car theft still stands.  As does being equipped for robbery in a park or street.

[Die Hard]

And neither should be a crime. The man with the screwdriver and cutters could just be a Brazilian electrician who forgot where he parked his rental. Should women be arrested for prostitution just because they're wearing torn nylons and too much makeup?

[Swoop]

How about the dirty old man found with lots of 'pictures' on his PC hard drive?

Should he be left alone living next to that elementary school cos he's done nothing wrong.....yet?

[Apeotomy]

They did not commit piracy, they were however equipped for piracy, thus making their boat a pirate vessel-  their intentions were clear to the world with the exeption of yourself and diehard.

I drive a car, I am a getaway driver? I own a gun, I am a robber? I own fertilizer, I am a bomber?

They did not commit piracy, they are no more pirates than you or I.

Your last point is sensationalist and cannot be proven. Prove my intentions with my first three examples?

[Die Hard]

How about the dirty old man found with lots of 'pictures' on his PC hard drive?

Should he be left alone living next to that elementary school cos he's done nothing wrong.....yet?

As far as I know possession of such photographic material is a crime. Carrying a screwdriver and a pair of wire cutters is not. And yes, even if the man in question is a known, but innocent pedophile he should be able to live wherever he wants as long as he does not commit any crimes. Innocent until proved guilty is the cornerstone of civilized law.

[SPKmes]

It comes down to circumstantial evidence. They boarded a vessel in known pirate territory (and under the law they have the right to board). they ascertained the situation. obviously found enough evidence to count as piracy. The options open to them were bring them on board, feed them, and give them carriage to Kenya to stand trial for Piracy(As Somalia has no judicial system in place to try for this) ...probably get a slap on the hand and kicked back into there home. This would open the gate for them to seek asylum in the UK and feed some more off the hard working Brit........hahaha  sorry just had to take a moment. by collecting welfare due to the hardships they faced in their area of the world.
Ultimately what they have done is placed themselves in a potentially dangerous situation, removed the threat and allowed them to go. The destruction of the fizz boat and tools of the trade were only done due to the fact that the RN has better weapons and they didn't need them.
 

[Die Hard]

No. The UN has decreed a special dispensation from international law allowing military ships in the area to disarm suspected pirates. However if piracy cannot be proved (i.e. they didn't actually attack anyone) the suspects have to be released. At least try to keep up SPKmes.